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Since when is $250k a year, middle class?


Hifi jim

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From ....du du du..... wikipedia:

Lets look at the William Thompson & Joseph Hickey, 2005 classifications:

"Lower Middle Class (32%)....$35-75k"
"Upper Middle Class (15%)....commonly above5 figures($100k)"
"Upper Class (1%)...$500,000+ common"

Lets look at Leonard Beeghley, 2004 defintions of...

"Middle Class (46%)(the majjority)...typical man making $57k"

Back to the top of the Wiki entry.. for Household_income_in_the_US : (2005 cenus)

$0-25k......28.22%
$25k-50k....26.65%
...national median $44,389 (50%)
$50k-75k....18.27%
$75k-100k...10.93%
$100k+.......15.73%

Looking at the $100k+ bracket(15.73%):
$100k-149k...9.89%
$150-199k.....3.17%
$200-249k.....1.17%
$250k+........1.50%

Opinion: Now, looking at things across the country, the US....making $250k is no way middle class when you fall into the top 1.5% of money makers in the country...*cough* basicall your making more money then 1 other person out of 100 people next to you (if we randomly picked a room of 100 people from across the US)....especially when country median is $45k or say 50 out of the 100 in that room. Again, this doesn't take into account your location at all.

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I haven't read through much of this thread but one thing I notice is most of the people who seem to think

1) $250K/year makes you "rich" and

2) making that kind of money somehow makes you a bad person

are the younger forum members. My wife and I struggled mightily for many years to get where we are today which, BTW, is not as far as it was 3 years ago. We don't eat out. I drive a car with 220K miles. We put our kids through private school, even when we couldn't afford to, etc.

I was making $20k/year when putting my wife through law school with 2 kids. We earned what we achieved and it's nobody's business but our own. Some of you sound like you want an apology! If you don't like where you are financially, do something about it!

Money ain't everything but I admit it helps. When you start out poor, I mean REALLY poor, you certainly have more appreciation when you hit that middle class level ;)

BTW - I know quite a few older folks who never made as much money as my wife and I do but they're better off than we'll ever be due to generational wealth. My parents generation is the only generation to have both pensions and social security. What we have in our retirement accounts probably wouldn't cover 10 years of my father's pension.

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I haven't read through much of this thread but one thing I notice is most of the people who seem to think

1) $250K/year makes you "rich" and

2) making that kind of money somehow makes you a bad person

are the younger forum members. My wife and I struggled mightily for many years to get where we are today which, BTW, is not as far as it was 3 years ago. We don't eat out. I drive a car with 220K miles. We put our kids through private school, even when we couldn't afford to, etc.

I was making $20k/year when putting my wife through law school with 2 kids. We earned what we achieved and it's nobody's business but our own. Some of you sound like you want an apology! If you don't like where you are financially, do something about it!

Money ain't everything but I admit it helps. When you start out poor, I mean REALLY poor, you certainly have more appreciation when you hit that middle class level ;)

BTW - I know quite a few older folks who never made as much money as my wife and I do but they're better off than we'll ever be due to generational wealth. My parents generation is the only generation to have both pensions and social security. What we have in our retirement accounts probably wouldn't cover 10 years of my father's pension.

Well said!

I sense that people want something from folks in the "upper 1.5%". I do not understand that at all nor do I understand what percentages have to do with whether or not you are middle class. As I said earlier when you reach a point where fiscal responsibilities are no longer a concern from a personal budgetary perspective then good for you! But $250K ain’t gonna get you there.
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Well, let me help you understand. First of all read this post in the mind set of it is strictly numbers. I don't care who makes what unless they truly are not earning it (ceo's driving their firms into bankruptcy for example). From a strictly statistical point of view, 98.5th percentile is simply not "middle" anything. Don't kid me that you don't understand percentages. From an IRS point of view, those making 250+ and especially 500+ are more likely to have cheated on their taxes and at numbers high enough to make a difference for pursuit. Fiscal freedom is possible at well under 250K and even at 100K or less as long as you live below your means. No, 250K will not get you there for a long time in the spend without care department, but you will be pretty comfortable and if you live at the level of the 100K or less guys you may get to a certain similar level (not super rich giant yacht-like of course) faster than many might think.

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For the record, I would like to invite each of you to go to post #3 on page 2 of this thread. What you will find is the first “name calling” incident in this thread. Extra bonus points for the first person to identify who did the name calling. I point this out since the topic starter made a big deal about name calling more than once.

Here’s what I THINK. I think that Mr. HiFi, through no fault of his own, has an accident and puts him on the disabled list forcing him to the sidelines. At first, some time off is no big deal – a chance to while away some time watching the Speed Channel and perusing various internet forums and getting his body back in shape. But after a period of time of not being able to work (which I think bothers him for he has a strong work ethic), he allows himself to be drawn into an article about some upper middle class family that voices their concern about how the economy affects them. Worse yet, he fixates on the fact that they make waaaaaay too much money to complain about anything (why he has this opinion and who left him in charge of deciding what is waaaay too much is only known to him). So there he sits at his PC, possibly feeling a bit sorry for himself for he’d rather be working and feel like a contributor and all that and there’s some woman out there who’s husband is making big bucks and she’s complaining?? How dare her?? Why....she should be glad she’s not laid-up with an injury or whatever.

You know what? How in the sam dickens does any of us know what that woman actually said? Just because the article comes from the WSJ it’s Gospel?? And while I can accept someone’s perspective about what THEY feel is a more than comfortable wage, I don’t agree, nor do I feel you should expect me to agree with that perspective. So we agree to disagree. Fair?

(rant mode on)

IMHO if one wants to obsess about something why not obsess over the hundreds & hundreds of millionaires - not folks who make $250K a year but MILLIONAIRES - that occupy Washington that don’t have a friggin’ clue as to what it’s like to have to put off buying something ‘cause they don’t have room on their credit card or college tuition is due or they're helping out an aging parent or whatever. These people, day & day out, pontificate that they understand YOU and do it with a straight face. Worse yet, they spend the money, that they confiscate from YOU, each & every day without any regard for what YOU did to earn it. And the icing on the cake?? They’re spending NOW the monies that will be confiscated from your kids and your grandkids

Ohhhh….but let’s start a thread about some ding bat who voices a concern about their buying power with the economy in the crapper even though her husband makes $250K and go on & on about how you just can’t fathom how they could see things that way (my words – not yours). Ohhhh…..the inhumanity of folks like that. Sheesh.......

Why not obsess over the fact that in order to spend one trillion dollars you’d have to spend $100MM a year for 100 years!!!! You wanna get p*ssed about something – get p*ssed about that.

(rant mode off)

Tom
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According to the westegg inflation calculator, making exactly $250,000.00 is equivelent to making $35,000.00 in 1960.

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi

A lot of people who would qualify interms of income as being below the poverty level today have a car, air conditioning, more than one TV (yes they have working electricity and heat), etc. Things have changed, believe it or not the general quality (all the acoutremonts) of life has improved. Of course cheap food/liquer/drugs has also impacted health in a negative way. Better heathcare now available to the standard citizen is much greater but so is the cost. Increased access to cheap goods is not always positive and therefore it has impact on aditional costs that the marginal users (health care) can't afford.

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Percentages are percentages. Nothing more. The simple fact is that there are around 600 BILLIONAIRES in the United States alone as well as tens of 1000's of Millionaires. THESE ARE THE UPPER CLASS PERIOD!!!

Someone earning 250 or 500k is better than the average bear, but they are NOT rich! They are not part of the elite upper class. Upper class back in the 50's was around the 500k range, not now. Maybe I have a different idea of upper class than most, but when I think of someone in the upper class, I think of someone that has a Yacht, several homes in multiple areas throughout the world, and maybe a small fleet of single engine planes (or a small jet).

I'm not saying 500k is nothing. It's good money. The bottom line is upper class=rich and 250k or 500k just don't make you that. If anything I would call it upper middle class.

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For the record, I would like to invite each of you to go to post #3 on page 2 of this thread.

I've reread what I wrote, and if you are referring to me saying "Inferring so makes you sound like a rich snob, but I don't want to assume [;)]" I thought my humor was evident with the wink, but perhaps you missed it. If you were offended, then I apologize. Now I ask all of you to reread Toms first post on page 1 of this thread where Tom, unprovoked came out swinging at me for reasons I can't figure.

Extra bonus points for the first person to identify who did the name calling.  I point this out since the topic starter made a big deal about name calling more than once.

"Mister smarty pants" and several of your other remarks were more than a little uncalled for, as was your general tone. You sound like a very angry man from the tone of your posts.

Heres what I THINK.  I think that Mr. HiFi, through no fault of his own, has an accident and puts him on the disabled list forcing him to the sidelines.  At first, some time off is no big deal a chance to while away some time watching the Speed Channel and perusing various internet forums and getting his body back in shape.  But after a period of time of not being able to work (which I think bothers him for he has a strong work ethic), he allows himself to be drawn into an article about some upper middle class family that voices their concern about how the economy affects them.  Worse yet, he fixates on the fact that they make waaaaaay too much money to complain about anything (why he has this opinion and who left him in charge of deciding what is waaaay too much is only known to him).  So there he sits at his PC, possibly feeling a bit sorry for himself for hed rather be working and feel like a contributor and all that and theres some woman out there whos husband is making big bucks and shes complaining??  How dare her??  Why....she should be glad shes not laid-up with an injury or whatever.

Wow. That is a bit off the mark and off topic I might add. Thank you for summing up my life so incorrectly. Is this not another personal attack at me? What did I do besides provide a link to a respected paper about an economic issue and give my two cents? Does this warrant attacking me and my point of view. If you disagree, say so and move on, or don't post at all. Why get personal? Remember your quote from your first post on page 1, "Sheesh... it must be so nice to have one's life in such perfect order that the only thing one has to be concerned about is other people"? Have you not done that yet again here by attempting to make me out to be bitter and "disabled", and your sarcasm with "for he has a strong work ethic" is transparent and childish. Don't worry about me Tom, I'm doing just fine thank you very much. Please leave your views of my personal life and attacks at the door. I asked a simple question of what's middle class? You seem to take offense for whatever reason that I ask Ms. Parnell to put her life in a little better perspective. Sheesh, I'd hate to ask the same of you.
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One more thing then I'm done - the biggest discrepency between the statistics shown on this thread is the fact that the upper class is very quickly pulling away from the middle and lower class. I don't think the people claiming 250k + is upper class realize that. If you look at the top 2% (which begins around 200k and up) what you don't realize is that their is about 45% of ALL United States funds that are in that category, which in simple terms means that the MAJORITY of money in this country is held by a select few. The people on the low end of this spectrum (top 1%) are no more upper class than the people at the 80% mark (which is around 60k) are lower class.

Middle class does NOT mean that 50% are in that demographic and 25% are lower class and 25% upper class, or any other distrubution of percentages.

A MUCH BETTER definition of "Middle Class" is the class between the laborers and the rulers. PLEASE don't take this statement the wrong way. The middle class is supposed to be HUGE and the lower class very small and the upper class very small. In this scenerio, the lower class would probably earn under 30k or so and the upper class would be on the other extreme of 5m +. Unfortunately, ALL country's are ran by the upper .5 % or even more realistically the top .15%.

If you think the upper class is the top 1%, you are seriously mistaken. That would be saying there are 3.5M people in this country that are wildly rich and this isn't the case. The upper class is never ment to exceed around the top half or quarter percent. That's just the way it is. 250k, 500k, or 1M does NOT get you there.

I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers, just trying to explain a bit.

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I wanna drive a lincoln,spend my evenings drinkin' the very best burgundy,I want a Yacht for sailin',a Private eye for tailin',my wife cause she's a bit too free.I've been told ever since I was a boy it's what you ought to be,part of the UMC.

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I wanna drive a lincoln,spend my evenings drinkin' the very best burgundy,I want a Yacht for sailin',a Private eye for tailin',my wife cause she's a bit too free.I've been told ever since I was a boy it's what you ought to be,part of the UMC.

Fish, I think this line can show how dated a song can be in just 20-some years.

I want a pool to swim in
Fancy suits to dress in
Some stock in GM and GE


I hope Rock'n Robert sold his GM stock after he cashed in (some say sold out) with his "like a rock" Chevy ads.

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