DACs with USB

[Spongeworthy]

Hello all,

I am soliciting opinions on experiences with DACs. I have used a Cambridge Audio DAC over the past 4 months with excellent results. That is until about a month ago when the unit stopped providing output from either a USB or optical connection. Prior to this experience, I was very impressed with the sonicsand performance for a $400 DAC. My only other experience is listening to an identical music server to mine using a Benchmark DAC-1 with USB. I use a Apple Mac Mini running iTunes/ FLAC, Sony DVP S9000E, Cambridge DacMagicScott 299.

My experience with getting the Cambridge unit has been terrible. The unit had to go to Quebec fro repair. They decided to replace it with a new unit that arrived DOA. The retailer is sending me a new unit but I think I have lost faith inb the reliability in the Cambridge unit. I am going to requestto exchange the Cambridge towards either a Benchmark or Music Hall DAC 25.2, which has a tube output.

Anybody with experience witha music server and/or DAC?

[philipbarrett]

Are you playing from a computer? If so, do yourself a favor, install a >$30 Firewire card and the >$99 Behringer FCA-202 for your playback. Without getting into technical issues around clocking (contained in the FW bitstream) or lack thereof (non-existent in the optical/TOS), it's so much more bang for the buck than any DAC.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/FCA202.aspx

[Spongeworthy]

My system is all about bang for the buck so I will check it out. I am relatively new to music servers and compressed music files. I would love to hear some other opinions.

[KdAgain]

I recently purchased my first DAC - an EMU 0404USB. Extremely pleased - incredible bang for the buck! Presently using it on a 3 year old Acer Laptop, but down the road want a dedicated audio server (PC). Player is JRiver MC13. Also use it to rip CDs to FLAC. The EMU is a non oversampling DAC. Used with Jriver it will auto set the sample rate on any file up to 24/192. This DAC is designed for the pro audio industry and is not a thing of beauty. But the sound is wonderful on our old Khorns!

Good Luck,

Rod

[philipbarrett]

Awesome - just what I'm talking about. If you're streaming from a computer these "pro" units are the way to go, I groan everytime I see people talking about their hi-end optical/Toslink DACs. Now I'm going to encourage you to try the Firewire PC card & Behringer combo. It's a bargain especially when you realize that a 3 year old laptop can make an awesome music playback server for minimal bucks.

Mine's on K-Horns too.

[philipbarrett]

Here's the state of the art in pro interfaces, 2 channel version -

http://www.mhsecure.com/v5mm/ULN2_2dExpanded.html

I use their multi-channel set up on the road everyday -

http://www.mhsecure.com/v5mm/2882_2dExpanded.html

Obviously overkill for home use althoughI know some that are using the ULN-2 for just that. I guess for $1,700 it's not badly priced compared to high end CD players or DACs.

[bliss53]

I started with a m-audio audiophile and the I got a wavelength brick last year. The m-audio sounded way better than a line out from the apple computer. The difference with the brick is tremendous. The wavelength makes lossless files sound as good as my redbook cds on my cayin hybrid cd player. The brick does not resolve lower density files (128-256 rate) as well as the m-audio. But now that I have the convenience cd quality on a music server I only listen to lossless files.

[aj01]

I'm not an expert - but I'm very happy with the ps audio DAC for $700. I run my ipod through a wadia that a friend sold to me for cheap and an older sony changer with an optical out.

[joshnich]

Are you playing from a computer?  If so, do yourself a favor, install a >$30 Firewire card and the >$99 Behringer FCA-202 for your playback.  Without getting into technical issues around clocking (contained in the FW bitstream) or lack thereof (non-existent in the optical/TOS), it's so much more bang for the buck than any DAC.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/FCA202.aspx

Phiip,

I am curious. I own a Benchmark DAC 1 USB. Would using the DAC input be "better" than the optical/TOS because of the clocking issues you noted, or is it true with the Behringer because of the firewire? You can tell I know nothing about this sort of thing.

Thanks

Josh

[Daddy Dee]

Phil,

I'm a complete noobie on firewire. The price of the Behringer unit is most attractive.

What I have used are a couple of different USB units, like Turtlebeach and (I've had an attack of amnesia) as to another better unit I've used.

edit: Griffin power wave was the other USB unit.

I thought the sound was very good, but then I don't know if I've done enough careful listening to hear a difference. To my ears, the headphone OUT jack on the laptop yields pretty good sound to my Heresy system.

Any thoughts?

[Islander]

The U-Phono UF0202 Phono-to-USB unit looks interesting, too, but when I checked the pricing ($44.99USD), it seems like it's available almost anywhere but Canada. Strange.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/UFO202.aspx

[sredmyer]

I use a Apple Mac Mini running iTunes/ FLAC, Sony DVP S9000E, Cambridge DacMagicScott 299.

Sorry I do not mean to highjack your thread but, I was not aware that iTunes supported flac files.

I would be very interested in an explanation of how this is done.

Steve

[aj01]

I haven't tried this, but I saw it when shopping for a dac.

http://www.psaudio.com/ps/how-to/how-to-play-flac-in-itunes

[Fastlayne]

Check out the features on the Peachtree Nova. The DAC alone is supposed to be worth the price of admission and it does a whole lot more. http://signalpathint.com/

Here's a video I found helpful to explain all the features:

http://www.listenup.com/Peachtree+Audio+Nova+%28Black%29-p-NOVA-p-.html

[philipbarrett]

I'm a complete noobie on firewire. The price of the Behringer unit is most attractive.

What I have used are a couple of different USB units, like Turtlebeach and (I've had an attack of amnesia) as to another better unit I've used.

USB is OK (and clocked) but was never designed for the transmission of audio. Conversely, the IEEE-1394 specifications for FireWire were expressly created for the transmission of high quality audio & video. Back when FW units were expensive USB was a nice cheap alternative. However, today, when a FW card & interface can be had for >$150 USB makes little sense.

Comment on the Peachtree Nova : This is still dealing with unclocked signals which will be detrimental to the sound WHATEVER the quality of the device. The USB interface is nice but that's a huge price to pay for a USB device.

[Fastlayne]

... Comment on the Peachtree Nova : This is still dealing with unclocked signals which will be detrimental to the sound WHATEVER the quality of the device. The USB interface is nice but that's a huge price to pay for a USB device.

I was looking at the Peachtree Nova as an integrated with HT pass thru mainly. The Behringer looks like a great solution for music from the PC. I have a 1394 connection on the front and back of the PC tower. If I understand it correctly, you bypass the soundcard and the firewire cable provides the signal and power for the FCA202. Is the signal from the firewire on the PC a variable or line level output? Will the headphone section of the FCA202 handle higher impedance headphones like the Sennheiser HD600 (300 ohm) to play loud when wanted?

[philipbarrett]

Will the headphone section of the FCA202 handle higher impedance headphones like the Sennheiser HD600 (300 ohm) to play loud when wanted?

Yes, bypass the soundcard, the FW carries both signal & power (except for a few older FW ports and hi-current requiring convertors).

I'll plug my AKG-701s in Saturday & let you know. Shouldn't be a problem tho'.

[Fastlayne]

Will the headphone section of the FCA202 handle higher impedance headphones like the Sennheiser HD600 (300 ohm) to play loud when wanted?

Yes, bypass the soundcard, the FW carries both signal & power (except for a few older FW ports and hi-current requiring convertors).

I'll plug my AKG-701s in Saturday & let you know. Shouldn't be a problem tho'.

After I asked, I read more about the Behringer. They didn't have any Vista support for awhile, but now have 32 bit drivers...too bad I need 64 bit. The good news is there are some great deals to be had on the FCA202. Got any other suggestions that are compatible with Vista 64 bit?

[philipbarrett]

The Presonus units are very good value too, their small Firebox should work out for you - http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=4

On the front page it says XP but the downloads section shows a Vista-64 package so I'll assume they're compatible. We use these to deliver the audio from media servers (the boxes that supply the content for the LED screens you see all over TV & tours) since they are a sturdy, reliable unit & seem to be very compliant.

I doubt Behringer will release a software upgrade however, it's entirely possible the FCA will work fine with your OS. If you order from Musicians Friend you can easily return if it doesn't.

[The Dude]

Philip

Pulling up an old thread here. But am trying to understand some of the problems with dacs you talked about like a clocking issue(from what my cousion explained to me clocking sounds like the timing with an engine but with the computer) dont know if I understand him correctly but, what kind of issues are with this as in using the dac. Also one thing I am questioning is those are trying to use a dac to do what it means does your system you talked about (which is really cheap and right in my price range)do the same or is it just a great digital sound processing. Hopefully this makes since.