considering my options- getting into more trouble

[winchester21]

Last month one of my Tubemagic monoblocs burned. Since then I have been running my backup amp- Mac 2105 SS. I truly miss the alluring highs and mids of the tubes- the warm softness of the sound can never be duplicated by SS gear. However I see the shortcomings of the tubes in terms of bass. The Mac kicks serious @ss in terms of punch and bass response. Very addictive. I find myself listening to loud funk tracks off my blues CDs and loud 70s rock that lends itself to this type of system and cranking the volume up. So- as I contemplate repairs of my amps and look down the road the very bad idea(from a cash standpoint) of biamping with a SS bottom and a tube top is looking better and better. I love my k horns dearly. But the idea of a bi amped Jubilee system keeps rearing its ugly head during this interim period. If I change crossovers to active- can I get there without losing the k horns? is buying a set of jubs just a matter of coming up with 6 -7 grand or is this a 2 year treasure hunt?? Are the jubs normally a 2 way speaker ?? Comments are apreciated.

[seti]

Has your MC2105 been serviced? My long term plan for the JubClones is two get two MC250 or MC2100 but use a tube preamp. After hearing JC's MC250s I can't stop thinking about them. Never thought I would rate early solid state so highly. Yes jubs for $6K or $7K is doable. I don't think the wait is two years lol. I think active has been my favorite so far mainly because of the flexibility. This was with the EV DX38. Typically people use the K510 or K402 with a K69 or if you have big bucks the TAD 4001 is very very very good. Good LUCK!!!!!

[winchester21]

The 2105 was bought by another forum member who bought it 2 years ago from Audio classics in NY which is a very reptuable outfit. The unit was checked out and certified good to go. At some point I plan to have Terry Dewick go through it. I am runnning a Peach II in front of the Mac. The tube pre and CD player take just enough of the edge off the SS sound to where it works lkie a charm. not my permanent arrangement but pretty good for a backup. When isaid 2 years i was thinking out loud about finding somebody with an existing set to sell- so few around.

[Coytee]

Wow... where to begin...dare I begin...

If I change crossovers to active- can I get there without losing the k horns?

If by this do you mean to say, if by going active can you get similar sound out of your Khorns like you might get from the Jubilee? I'd say in a heartbeat, no. Don't forget you are dealing with a 1" midrange driver (or perhaps a 3/4" driver?) with a 2" diaphragm and the Jubilee is using a 2" driver (with a 4" diaphragm?)

Point being... larger format. Just read about Greg's Vtrac upgrade.

If I change crossovers to active- can I get there without losing the k horns?

Losing the Khorns as in they are out of your house or do you mean losing the sound of them? (it's very easy to confuse me)

is buying a set of jubs just a matter of coming up with 6 -7 grand

Yes. You (or anyone interested) can get ahold of Roy and he'll put you in touch with the proper people who will connive to seperate you from your cash. Also, realize the bass bin on the Jubilee has been tweeked a bit by him and the physical construction of it is better/stronger. You can also order it with a Walnut (and perhaps other?) finishes for an upcharge. Meaning, you can get them MUCH more WAF friendly than those dummy early adopters!! All a matter of how much do you want to spend.

Are the jubs normally a 2 way speaker ??

The Jubilee was originally designed to replace the Khorn and take the 3 way Khorn back to PWK's original intention, a 2-way speaker. In this regard, the answer is 'yes it WOULD have been a normal 2-way speaker' PWK however, didn't live long enough to see the Jubilee unfold as he hoped/planned. After he passed away, it's my understanding the company essentially shelved the research on it. They soon had a need for something about the size of the Jubilee and they discovered the Jubilee (originally designed/built/intended for HOME use) was good enough to go into their commercial lineup sooooooooo, into the commercial lineup it went. In the commercial lineup though, they are more interested with major output so the Jubilee was configured as a 3-way so they could get the output where it might need to be. Side note: The "Jubilee" as I understand it, specifically refers to the bass bin.

Anyways, the Jubilee as a 3-way sat in the commercial lineup until some really geeky people came along and decided if they wanted to put sound above anything else, it was a pretty acceptable speaker [Y]

The first person who bought a pair of Jubilees lives in/near Orlando and he has a commercial 3-way version in his basement. Everyone else that I'm aware of, has the 2-way variant in their homes. Most everyone is going active via either Dx38 which gives maximim flexability or Crown Xti's which are a very cost effective, great sounding solutioni. Off the top of my head, I can count Steve, Greg, Mike, Eric...who else... well, with my notes at office, this is all I can count of the top of my head as people who have passives with their Jubilees. (Greg has both active and passive and his preference is passive). Virtually everyone else is using some form of active.

[Coytee]

Typically people use the K510 or K402

I can only think of Bob Riff who is using the K510. Oh... add him to the list of passive users too. He's got the K510 mated with the B&C (forget model) driver and a passive stuffed inside his bass bin.

TAD 4001

Seti meant to say the TAD 4002. He's right though in that it sounds veryyyyyyy good and is veryyyyy expensive.

[JL Sargent]

You can go SS to the bottom of a Khorn and Tubes to the top and have very exciting results I suspect. I have several sound systems here and my fav by far is biamping 2ways with SS and tube SET on the top.

[seti]

Typically people use the K510 or K402

I can only think of Bob Riff who is using the K510. Oh... add him to the list of passive users too. He's got the K510 mated with the B&C (forget model) driver and a passive stuffed inside his bass bin.

TAD 4001

Seti meant to say the TAD 4002. He's right though in that it sounds veryyyyyyy good and is veryyyyy expensive.

Woops yup the TAD 4002. Sorry. Out of my range for a long time.

I plan to go the 510 route myself. Eventually.

[Coytee]

You can go SS to the bottom of a Khorn and Tubes to the top and have very exciting results I suspect. I have several sound systems here and my fav by far is biamping 2ways with SS and tube SET on the top.

A partial tease for Chris.

Tonight, I yanked out one of my Crown K2's (playing the HF horn) and plumbed in the Viva 300B SET amp, also to the HF horns. After I got the wires reconfigured, I got a different idea and reconfigured again.

I put one K2 vertically on one speaker and the 300B vertically on the other speaker so I could see what the bass response was like with it. I didn't do much listening after that as something came up however, I did have the opportunity to play it in stereo and then for kicks, I cranked up the gains on the K2 (300B has fixed input sensativity).

It has simply always amzed me how these Klipsch speakers sound when you play them at dinner music levels and how they continue to sound when you step on it a little bit more. I had the gains on the Crown at about 50% and frankly, couldn't even hear the other speaker (it wasn't THAT loud to begin with)

[winchester21]

I need to get a better idea of what a crossover can/cannot do. It seems that I do not have a proper understanding of the differences between active and passive. I thought I did but I dont.I am a trial and error part swapper and my understanding of the technical/mechanical aspect of this hobby is admittedly lacking. I would like to keep the size configuration of the k horn in place. It sounds like 2 way/biamped is where I need to be. Don't know if its dooable within the k horn cabinet configuration with good results. I really need to hear a set of jubs. i have avioded this like the plague because I love the k horns but I realize that I need to put a plan in place where I can mix SS and tubes to achieve my goal.

[Coytee]

Chris, for the record, you are more than welcome to come by my place. Although I don't have passives anymore (sold them to Greg) you can hear the Jubilees on active, LaScalas on passives (extreme slope) AND JubeScalas with an active.

You want a biamped mono speaker with 300B power on top & bottom, how about a biamped mono speaker with a Crown K2 on top & bottom? Perhaps a mix of stereo sound with 300B on top and solid state on bottom?

You want to REALLY part your toupe'? how about biamped with K2's on top and K2's on bottom?

You know you're welcome. You can even bring your son if you'd like. Heck...you can bring the WIFE! [6]

Given I expect this to happen sometime or another, I'll add...the only time that I'm currently sure of right now that would not work would be next weekend as it's currently looking like I'm going to have to go to Atlanta to take my mother in for a doctors appointment.

Once you hear them your confusion will diminish and you will become one of the Heards.

Big difference between active & passive... look inside the backs of your Khorns and you will see the passives. What is it other than a bunch of parts that divide your signal from your single amp to your three drivers.

With an active, you will need an electronic crossover. With Khorns you would either need a 3 way crossover or perhaps, a 2 way using some passive parts to divide between the midrange & tweeter. My 2 cents is, if you are going to go active then simply do it right.

With your Khorns, it will also mean THREE channels of amplification per speaker, one for each driver. This is why I'm using two stereo amps (mixing between K2 on woofers and a K2 or the 300B on the K402 horn).

You should talk to Marty (Hobie1dog) who also lives in the Charlotte area. He's been here to hear the Jubilees and had them cranking pretty well. Marty does/did play in a large band. My recollection of some of his comments were, this was the first time he heard the sound out of a speaker, that was similar to what he heard when he was in the middle of the band. Heck... I'd bet he'd come with you if you came over. That would make your journey to/from my place a lot faster too as you could both jabber away.

Here's his comments

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/112482.aspx?PageIndex=1

[dtel]

I really need to hear a set of jubs

You really do, it would be worth the trip just to get an idea of what you want to do as far as Khorns or something else. No one was willing to sell there Khorns.....but ended up selling them, and I know why, your ears will also. IMO

The Jub goes lower than the khorn but for me it was the 402 horn that stole the show. I love that horn, like they say there's no replacement for displacement, it does not sound like the music is coming from a horn, I guess because of the size and/or just a great design ?

[USNRET]

NO, NO, NO, I am NOT going to listen to any Jubilees and that's final

what date was that again

so who needs 5 Belles, a pair of Khorns, a pair of Quartets and 3 Jensen triaxial 6x9s? Nope, still not enough for 2 Jubs, a Lifestyle HT package and a divorce

[dtel]

NO, NO, NO, I am NOT going to listen to any Jubilees and that's final

what date was that again

so who needs 5 Belles, a pair of Khorns, a pair of Quartets and 3 Jensen triaxial 6x9s? Nope, still not enough for 2 Jubs, a Lifestyle HT package and a divorce

That's funny, right up to the last part...divorce....now your talking serious money and a real lifestyle change. []

I remember those Jenson triaxial 6x9's they were hot stuff when they came out, had to have some.

[Marvel]

the Jubilee is using a 2" driver (with a 4" diaphragm?)

The K-69 has a 2 inch throat and a 2.84 inch voice coil, while the TAD 4002 does have a 4 inch VC.

Bruce

[winchester21]

UNSRET- Your" no bass rant in Heritage" rant at CBs place got me on this path to destruction in the first &^%^place. I got home and listened to my k horns with the mac 2105. There is a void at the top/mid that has to have tubes.But the Mac SS manhandles the tubes-IMHO- even the powerful ones in terms of bass response and Kicka-- factor according to my VERY untrained ears. The bass response upon revisiting SS with my k horns(much maligned for lacking in bass by some threads here) with the 2105 was pretty bleeping awesome. I"feel the bass"and even have the urge to turn it down at times. I would expect for you to see the same thing depending on how well your room fits the k horns. I am very lucky by many accounts that this unlikely listening room works well with them. I hope you observe the same results.

Yes- I did say that I would never listem to jubs. I will eat my words on that account. It is gonna take some pretty dramatic differences to convince me.

If the k horns can be bi or tir amped to my satisfaction I will stay there. The room dims are not receptive to anything larger. But- the biamp tubes over SS has my attnetion and I am considering my options. I still maintian that the k horns are by far the best speaker by far that I have heard to date.

I can only imagine Cigarbums VRD NOS over a couple of large Mac monoblocs or Crowns in a biamp setup. into something suitable for that setup

This is a long term pipe dream at this point- not gonna happen anytime soon..

[winchester21]

Bring the wife.????.. Why dont i just hang myself and get it over with.LMAO Less painful than divorce.. and cheaper.

[Coytee]

the Jubilee is using a 2" driver (with a 4" diaphragm?)

The K-69 has a 2 inch throat and a 2.84 inch voice coil, while the TAD 4002 does have a 4 inch VC.

Thank you for the correction.

[USNRET]

UNSRET- Your" no bass rant in Heritage" rant at CBs place

and you took my drunk a** serious[:$]

new house, new room, gonna make a difference with everything I have. With no objective evidence whatsoever I came to the conclusion that tube high & SS low was the way to go based on burbon. Now with that said it was like trying to find flaws in a bikini contest where the loser was a 10.

[winchester21]

Based on Bourbon or whatever- that is what I am hearing and that is where I am heading(biamping) as soon as money allows. Drunk or not I think we all left with a better understanding of equipment- particlularly Heritage and tubes. I can crank up this Mac/K horn combo and feel the bass- not just with that one CD. All the objective evidence that I need. You are right about the loser being a 10. Gotta feed the addiction with something better.

Coytee- I plan to listen to your stuff soon. I want to have cash in hand for the other deal when I do.Thanks for the offer.