which klipsch loudspeaker plays most base

[fredrik]

Hello

How does klipsch Khorn look like i dont now if i found them on klipsch home page.Today i have klipsch rf-7 and i like them but i always look for improvment i also have two digitaldesign 9515,15" subbwofer so i have base but sometime i think the horn sounds a little well sharp i have also listened on the majority different cd player but i think the horn still
can become sharp in the sound on truly high volume maybe it becomes better with new filters that dean g builds ?

best regards fredrik

[Islander]

At "truly high volume" you could be reaching the point where your ears start to distort, so it may not be an issue with the speakers. Have you tried adjusting your tone controls, perhaps for a little less treble?

Also, really high volume levels can sometimes overload the room, and that won't sound good. Do your favourite bands actually play that loud?

[russ69]

fredrik,

You can take a little sharpness out of the horns with a cable change. I don't know what your system is so it's hard to make a recommendation.

Thanx, Russ

[fastlane]

What preamp and amplifier are you using?

[twistedcrankcammer]

which klipsch loudspeaker plays most base
and midbase

best regards fredrik

Frederik,

I have seen only one indesputible statement; "No Doubt about it", but the answer was incorect!!

The indesputible KING of Klipsch Bass and Mid Bass is the KP-600 system speakers.

The only problem is that very, VERY few, even here on the forum have ever even heard them, and as far as I am aware, only 5 of us forum members even own a set of them. They blow the MCM-1900 and the Jubilee out of the water. As far as I know, only Cholter and Kevin Harmon have all three pairs of those speakers, and only Kevin has all three up and running propperly, and I am fortunate enough to have spent many, many hours listening to all three with Kevin. Jubilees with 684s is the only thing that would begin to compare. I would imagine that JCs MCM Grand 4s would be in the running, if he augmented them with a pair of 684's.

JMHO..... Roger

[Daddy Dee]

http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/search/default.aspx?search=klipschorn

Fredrik,

Here's a link to the Klipschorns on the Klipsch website.

Hope you have a chance to hear these. They do have a different sound than RF-7's.

Klipschorn and other Heritage speakers are my preference, but of course, that is subjective.

[colterphoto1]

KPT884 will kick them all in low end.

Roger, I'll add one more to your list- KP682 with KP362 tops is my 'bar setup', the KP682 is the KI684 made portable. Both are same basic cabinet size as the SW680 (dual 18") , but made of 1" plywood and housing the upgraded K47EP2 driver. And yes I have them up and running properly. We'll be doing freqency analysis of them today and tweaking the XTi rack for flat response.

Next up- getting the KP600 stacks refurbished, painted, tweaked. Look for a thread in Commercial section.

[Colin]

Fred - if you already have 7s and subs, than yes, I would explore either tube amps or upgraded crossovers to smooth the upper end peaks, I heard DeanGs and they are well worth the improvement!

[Shiva]

I have the klipsch epic cf3's. they have hard hitting powerful bass. when playing around with a test tone cd, they shake the house and pressurize the room,down into the mid 20hz range.

[twistedcrankcammer]

KPT884 will kick them all in low end.

Roger, I'll add one more to your list- KP682 with KP362 tops is my 'bar setup', the KP682 is the KI684 made portable. Both are same basic cabinet size as the SW680 (dual 18") , but made of 1" plywood and housing the upgraded K47EP2 driver. And yes I have them up and running properly. We'll be doing freqency analysis of them today and tweaking the XTi rack for flat response.

Next up- getting the KP600 stacks refurbished, painted, tweaked. Look for a thread in Commercial section.

Michael,

KPT884 may go lower, but as Roy pointed out, 30Hz will cover all your musical Bass, so except for synthasized suff, and movie explosion, the 682 and 684 will put out more musical Bass. For all of the other stuff, I still have my pair of Velodyne HGS-18IIs.[]

As to the statement of having all three up and running, I was talking about a pair of Jubilees, a pair of MCM 1900s, and a pair of KP-600s. One of the last times I talked with you, you weren't happy with how your Jubilees sounded and you stated you might sell them and break out your 60th aniverary K-Horns. From that, I garnered that you didn't have them propperly set up yet, as to me, Kevins clearly sound better then K-Horns as they are set up. I also didn't think you had your 600s up and running yet, do you???

Only two of Kevins 18's worked. He gave one to his brother, and the other to Bill Hendricks. Kevin put 4 new EP2s in his 600s, and if you look at the photo he posted of his amp rack with your old Motengators, his 600s, and my 600s, mine will be getting 4 new EP2s as well.

I look forward to seeing some shots of your 600s and how they come together as I have always enjoyed and followed your Pro posts, especially putting the new drivers in the MWMs for Kevin.

I was really blessed in being located so close to Kevins House for three months, and meeting Bill was some free icing on the cake.

It would really be great if next year, maybe we could get Kevin and Bill to bring their 600s, I brought my 600s, and you could break out your 600s for the Indy Klipsch fest that you did this Year. Heck, maybe you and Kevin could even throw in a pair on MCM stacks. I know this guy who has a buch of TSCM stuff.[6]

Roger

[DrWho]

KPT884 may go lower, but as Roy pointed out, 30Hz will cover all your musical Bass, so except for synthasized suff, and movie explosion, the 682 and 684 will put out more musical Bass.

Just because a sub doesn't dig as low, doesn't mean it is going to sound more musical. In fact, there are a few good reasons why it might be the other way around depending on the compromises chosen to make the other sub go lower.

In the case of the 884 and 684, I would say that they are both equally musical....and it's a no brainer if you matched the radiating surface area (so two 884's vs a single 684).

[twistedcrankcammer]

KPT884 may go lower, but as Roy pointed out, 30Hz will cover all your musical Bass, so except for synthasized suff, and movie explosion, the 682 and 684 will put out more musical Bass.

Just because a sub doesn't dig as low, doesn't mean it is going to sound more musical. In fact, there are a few good reasons why it might be the other way around depending on the compromises chosen to make the other sub go lower.

In the case of the 884 and 684, I would say that they are both equally musical....and it's a no brainer if you matched the radiating surface area (so two 884's vs a single 684).

Who,

Who said anything about a single 684??

This all refers originally back to 4 EP2 18's in a pair of KP-680-SW and 4 15's in a pair of KP-650-LF cabinets that are part of a KP-600 system as having the most Bass and Mid Bass of any Klipsch speaker out there. Yes, the EP2s are a substitute, but the 600's come with 4 18's and 4 15's. In any other senario, such as JC's MCM 4 Grands, you will have to add other speakers Klipsch or otherwise to come up with as much Bass. Then it becomes a VERY VERY STUPID argument of this speaker plus 4 884's, well then, what about this speaker with 8 884's and so on. The musical statement was a pair of 684's vs: a pair of 884's, and in that scenario, surface area speaks for itself. The only reson 684's were ever brought up is that you woul have to add a pair of them to a pair of MCM stacks to come up with similar BASS output of a KP-600 system.

Roger

[DrWho]

There is nothing magical about the bass in the KP600 system. The
dual 15's are a midbass module and only get down to ~100Hz. The dual
18's are just that....dual 18's.

The reason I said to match two
884's to a single 684 is to match the radiating surface area, which
makes more sense from a tool perspective than to match the number of
cabinets. Perhaps you would prefer to match cabinet volume instead?
That works for me too (and rules out the 884).

Btw, the 884 is flat to 30Hz and about 10dB down at 20Hz. The 684 is 10dB down at 30Hz....so probably only flat to around 45Hz.

What
you're probably noticing as "more musical" bass is that the bassbin is
probably hyped up around 6-10dB relative to the midrange, and with a
100Hz xover, you're looking at extra output from ~45Hz to 100Hz. That's
pretty much where most of the girth in older 70's/80's kick drums
reside. Bass guitar doesn't usually go below 45Hz either....and most
bass cabs are 10dB down by 40Hz too...

If you're listening to
modern music (which I do), then you're looking at bass cabs that are
10dB down at 30Hz, and kick drums with a ton of output even into the
20's. You have to sacrifice maxSPL to dig lower, yet all the modern
top-of-the line touring PA's are flat into the 20's. Quadrupling your
number of cabs or your excursion/amplifier power to match the SPL is no
small investment.

Btw, surface area isn't the entire
story....linear range of excursion is the other half. If you double the
surface area, but halve the linear excursion, then you end up with the
same SPL for the same level of distortion.

[Jim Cornell]

I will have to look into this line. Impressive.

Jim

[twistedcrankcammer]

I will have to look into this line. Impressive.

Jim

Jim,

If you go back out to the "FORUM" section and look under "PRO AUDIO AND TOURING", the click onto "VINTAGE VAULT", then click onto "WELCOME TO THE VINTAGE VAULT" the 5yh post down is by KHarmonDDS and shows Kevins amp rack, his two KP-600 stacks, his two MCM-1900 stacks, and my as just purchased KP-600s needing new 18 inch drivers. The KP-600 system with the flyware was $25,000 when they were sold new by Klipsch, for two stacks, or the six cabinets that it takes to make two stacks.

Roger

[Islander]

What you're probably noticing as "more musical" bass is that the bassbin is probably hyped up around 6-10dB relative to the midrange, and with a 100Hz xover, you're looking at extra output from ~45Hz to 100Hz. That's pretty much where most of the girth in older 70's/80's kick drums reside. Bass guitar doesn't usually go below 45Hz either....and most bass cabs are 10dB down by 40Hz too...

If you're listening to modern music (which I do), then you're looking at bass cabs that are 10dB down at 30Hz, and kick drums with a ton of output even into the 20's. You have to sacrifice maxSPL to dig lower, yet all the modern top-of-the line touring PA's are flat into the 20's. Quadrupling your number of cabs or your excursion/amplifier power to match the SPL is no small investment.

So are the modern drums physically different from the older ones? The only different-looking kick drum I've noticed is the one used by the drummer in Sigur Ros. It's relatively small in diameter, like many jazz drummers use, but about double the depth/length of a typical drum, and it gives a really big sound.

[Jim Cornell]

Those KP600's are something else. WOW Dual 18 subs? dam

I do like the MCM as well I always did.

[Jim Cornell]

Roger

Are those TSCM in you profile? I like those also. At one time I had only 1.

Jim

[DrWho]

So are the modern drums physically different from the older ones? The only different-looking kick drum I've noticed is the one used by the drummer in Sigur Ros. It's relatively small in diameter, like many jazz drummers use, but about double the depth/length of a typical drum, and it gives a really big sound.

I dunno if I would say physically different other than the resonators are tuned differently...that and less pillows are used. It also matters where you put the microphone.

[twistedcrankcammer]

Roger

Are those TSCM in you profile? I like those also. At one time I had only 1.

Jim

Jim,

I never filled out my system profile. I am the guy who kept emailing you if you had any of the pieces from the high frequency bin like horn section for the dual tweeter or 400 horn or it's 4 into one collector or the blown woofer from the TSCM Bass Bin that you had to get rid of.

My 600's are the ones that are missing the 18 inch drivers. This picture was taken just a few days after I picked them up in Texas. The nice looking set of KP-600s and the pair of MCM stacks belong to my budy Kevin Harmon. I live in Ohio, and just got home with my KP-600s, but I was in Louisianna for work for a little over 3 months, and was blessed to only be 7 miles from Kevins house where I was staying.

Myself, I own 9 of the TSCM Bass Bin sections, but only 5 of the Top or high frequency sections. The TSCM is the Pro version of a K-Horn as you are aware, these are the speaker you see in my avitar for those not familiar with them. The TSCM is how I first met Kevin, as he also has a pair of them. I sold my K-Horns on EBay to raise some of the cash I needed to purchase the 600's, So right now, I own the 9 TSCM Bass Bins, the 5 TSCM Hi-Frequency cabinettes, a single K-Horn that I will be selling (do you need a third K-Horn?), a pair of KP-600s that are works in progress, and a few odds and ends towards building my own MCM stacks. I had a couple of LaScalas as well, but those went to my brother in law for helping me go pick up all the TSCM stuff (minus the pair I already had) in Pensylvania. I have an assortment of extra Klipsch woofers as well.

Kevin, was fortunate enough to have personally known Paul Klipsch, and there is a picture of Paul and Kevin at Pauls widows house. Those were Kevins KP-600s in that photo with his new amp rack for them. Those are Kevins MCM-1900 stacks in that photo, which he bought off of Michael Cholter here on the forum. Kevin also has a pair of Jubilees with a KP-684 in his man cave, a pair of TSCMs, two pair of Klipsch Horns (one set from the 50s), a pair of Chorus IIs, a pair of Klipsch Short Horns, some KP-301s, and a pair of Herisies as well as 3 other Klipsch powered sub woofers. His brothers and his parents own Klipsch as well.[]

As far as I am aware, there are only 5 guys here on the forum that have a pair of KP-600s; Michael Cholter, Kevin Harmon, Bill Hendricks, a guy who has a set of them in his basement, and myself. I have been fortunate enough to meet all of these people in person except for the guy that has a pair in his basement.

I would like to personally thank Kevin and Bill, for the shared experience of picking up and assembling their KP-600s (it will always be a memorable experience) and I can't thank my buddy Kevin enough for helping me pick up my KP-600s, for bringing me into his home to meet his wife and kids, for introducing me to his wonderful parents, 3 brothers, and two sisters, for many hours of listening and auditioning all of his big speakers(by the way JC, if you read this, we spent several sessions listening to you funk disc on the Jubilees and the KP-684. It really shows off the system). but most of all, I would like to thank Kevin for being a great friend, for including me into his family and making the time away from my kids a little less hard.

Roger