Professor Thump Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 I took my son David to the target range yesterday. We like to go out there and improve our shooting form once in a while. David has been wanting a pistol so I said we would go to the gun store afterwards and look at the latest options. Andy W had recommended a store in Plainfield so I went there. They had reasonable prices and lots of customers. We looked at a S&W revolver for my wife and the 9mm's for myself and my son to share on our birthdays. The S&W was available for $350 but I didn't like the single action trigger pull. If I was in combat maybe this is fine but for target shooting it would be difficult with the 8 lb pull. My guess. I tried the Ruger P9 ? which felt bulky but managable but I wanted a conceal piece. I found a used XD-9 Sub Compact which we negotiated to $379. I have debated between this model and the standard size but decided I would allow the shorter barrel for conceal advantages. The dual size mag is a big plus also. I agreed on a price and we called ATF for clearance. I couldn't believe it only took 2 minutes to get approved! The store has their number on speed dial. There were 4 guns purchased in the half hour while I was there. They say the sell 43 guns / day on average. This is possibly the busiest store in Indiana, but Don's may have him beat due to location in Indy. I can't believe the rush on guns right now. Ammo was short also as you may know. Where will this end? Will manufacturers step up production or be stomped on by Uncle Sam? All I know is that we have a new birthday present and a compact symble of freedom for my family on this 4th of July. Happy 4th... I am going shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester21 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Prof- My older son also has an XD 9- the middle size example. You will be amazed and thrilled by the performance of this great value. I am the 'gun guy" at work and among our friends. I always reccomend this particular pistol to anyone considering a purchase. Quite honestly- I shoot it better than any of my HK USPs costing 2-3 times that amount. Which Smith are you looking at?? The trigger pull issue can be addressed by the S&W custom shop or by a different model. I have a number of Smiths and the trigger pull is quite acceptable. Allegedly here is the deal on ammo- Several of the largest manufacturers got a humongus shipment of bad primers. The manufacturers had to stop production and tool up to make their own primers. Throw this in with the obvious political changes which took place and demand went into the stratosphere. About that time the govt quadrupled their orders with the ammo companies. They have priority over civilian sales. Then shortages create a buying panic- kinda like a gas shortage. the perfect storm. I see this easing up a bit. I can get 9mm and 45. Check often with ammoman.com and Midway . Also check your gunshows. This situation is a major PITA for me as I have many pistols in multiple calibers that my boys and I love to take out and shoot a couple times a month at our hunting lease. Now- we have to ration our ammo and shoot about half as much half as often.I plan to lay up about 5k of 45 and 9mm. Great to see that there are fellow shooters working for my favorite speaker company. Enjoy your new pistol and happy birthday!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Nice price. We took my 66 year old mother in law shooting yesterday. She really did not want to go and complained. Then after she shot she admitted that she liked. it. She did well too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Thump Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 Prof- My older son also has an XD 9- the middle size example. You will be amazed and thrilled by the performance of this great value. I am the 'gun guy" at work and among our friends. I always reccomend this particular pistol to anyone considering a purchase. Quite honestly- I shoot it better than any of my HK USPs costing 2-3 times that amount. Well Winchester I am elated that I bought this weapon now that I have shot it today. I knew I needed a conceal piece because my Dan Wesson .357 was too large with the 7 " barrel. I had shot the original Glock (16 shot mag) when this polimer handgun had been released some 22 plus years ago. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with that after shooting Dan W and S&W 38 revolvers. I had also shot a Gold Cup .45 and felt that I didn't have much accuracy with this model. Those were my first experiences with ACP pistols so I had stuck with the revolvers for years. I had lost interest and let my permit expire when I move around the country on a new career path. Now that things are the way that they are with the country, I think it is going to become more difficult to shoot and carry in the future unless the gun control party looses some power. So I feel it is time to carry again. My son has been very interested in owning a handgun so this has motivated me to pick up the XD-9 sub compact. He had to work today but my daughter Nikki (22 yrs old) and her friends were able to shoot today, so we worked the actions on quite a few rifles and pistols. Before shooting we went to Walmart and got lucky on ammo. Their shelves were bare except for several calibers. There were no .32 cal for my Nikki's Kel Tec but there were mulitple Winchesters for the 9mm, ($21 / 100). I had paid $32 / 50 for .38's so I knew this was a deal. The lady working the counter had just uncrated 5 or 6 cases of ammo and the shelves still were bare. I know that prices have tripled recently but Walmart probably has a price lock for a period of time. She said they hadn't received ammo for 6 months. I bought two boxes of 9mm because there was a limit to how much you could buy. I would guess they are out of stock again already, just hours later. Well now that we were at the range I shot paper at 25 yds and got some on the paper. Personally I think I can shoot my bow more accurately at 25 yds but this was my first time with this handgun. The trigger pull is real smooth and light. With the extended handle on the mag this gun is ultra smooth to shoot. The sights are easy to use even with my declining vision. Even my daughter who has tinny hands could put rounds on the paper at 15 Yds. This was the first time she had shot her gun also. She had already taken the gun safety course with my wife recently that was taught by Andy W., so I just instructed her on the basic refresher course and worked on her trigger pull by handing her the gun loaded and unloaded to show her what flinching does to her accuracy. I suspect she will shoot much better than me if she practices regularly. She was a natural at shooting once she got over the initial "gun jitters". We shot a M1 Garrand. That was a first for me. Wow... Accurate beyond it's years! Someone also had a 7.62 SKS with a cheap scope. It had not been bore sighted so we couldn't even find the paper at 50 yds. Go figure. Instead of wasting rounds I told him to have it bore sighted first and then I would help him dial it in. We also shot a 9 mm Cobra conceal piece. What a piece of junk. It even jammed on me. No thanks. The funniest thing was after all those weapons were shot everyone was waiting for me to shoot the Dan Wesson. I had shot it a day earlier so I was not as interested, but once everyone shot it they couldn't believe how much better it shot. Easy to keep on target with the weighted long barrel and easy on the hands. It even sounds good. Nice warm thump. I gotta admit I still like the way this old revolver recoils. But for a conceal piece I think I will be quite satified with the XD. I do want to shoot an HK some day because I am told that those shoot the best but the price and versitility of this sub compact is hard to beat. Thank Andy for the education and recommendation! Sorry I bought one before you did, but you can borrow it anytime. Which Smith are you looking at?? The trigger pull issue can be addressed by the S&W custom shop or by a different model. I have a number of Smiths and the trigger pull is quite acceptable. Smith and Wesson SW9GVE was the model. It was a single pull which was the issue for me. If I was in a combat situation maybe I wouldn't notice but for distance shooting the trigger would have been work. Allegedly here is the deal on ammo- Several of the largest manufacturers got a humongus shipment of bad primers. The manufacturers had to stop production and tool up to make their own primers. Throw this in with the obvious political changes which took place and demand went into the stratosphere. About that time the govt quadrupled their orders with the ammo companies. They have priority over civilian sales. Then shortages create a buying panic- kinda like a gas shortage. the perfect storm. I see this easing up a bit. I can get 9mm and 45. Check often with ammoman.com and Midway . Also check your gunshows. This situation is a major PITA for me as I have many pistols in multiple calibers that my boys and I love to take out and shoot a couple times a month at our hunting lease. Now- we have to ration our ammo and shoot about half as much half as often.I plan to lay up about 5k of 45 and 9mm. I have heard several rumours on the ammo shortage. I don't know what to believe because I am a skeptic when it comes to most Washington leaders at this point but your theory seems most plausible. I realize the Iraq/Afgan wars have sucked up some 223's and primers and of course 9mm, but I heard that no ammo manufacturer wants to put the investment up for new tooling due to the current administration. That sounds paranoid to me but I have to admit that if it was my factory I would be concerned with ROI and litigation. Great to see that there are fellow shooters working for my favorite speaker company. Enjoy your new pistol and happy birthday!!!!!! Andy is the expert on handguns but I have spent many an hour in the field duck or upland bird hunting along with bow hunting. Maybe we need a new forum for these types of topics. Carrying is certainly becoming the big debate. 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winchester21 Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 LOL- you are comparing these guns to a DW relvover?? The dan Wesson was marketed as a poor mans(Colt) python. The gun has become a classic and has a following. Back in the day I had a Pistol pack DW with 4 or 5 barrels of diffferent lengths. I curse the day I let it get away in a trade to satisfy my lust for an expensive upland shotgun. You can't keep them all but I regret selling that one. Fine- fine weapon. real tack driver. I am not exactly familiar with your Smith but I would assume that it is a DA only concealment gun???? These are not intended as target shooters. Some are better than others. The DA only config is acceptable as a 6 foot defense gun- some are better than others. the Scandium frame 357 5 shot revolvers- 10 oz snubbies are my personal pick for close in carry due to the light weight- firepower and small size. THey are extremely popular and pricey. Mine has a decent trigger pull but not my choice for punching paper.The Smith Custom shop can make it much better for a price. If you dont like it I would trade for another model. Any overt Federal firearm carry restrictions appear to be a real hot potato at this time and lots of folks are watching. It will be a low and hard fought process if it does progress. Look for the ammo situation to ease up a bit. too much money to be made. Glad you like your XD. Pretty much a no - brainer choice in todays choices given the atttractive price. The last similar thread got like over a hundred hits. Another forum would be cool. Lot of shooters hang out here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelA Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Thump, that is the gun I am still looking at. I would like to get a .40 though. Looks nice. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester21 Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 40 or 9mm- just buy it- unless you want to drop 800+ at the next level- Not much left to debate on this decision IMHO-everybody seems to love them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 If anyone is interested, I am going to sell my Sig Sauer P250 compact 9mm. I just bought it and have put 4 boxes of ammo through it. I will sell it for $600. Check pricing on the net, this is a good deal. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Thump Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 Since my son had to work yesterday, I took him shooting today. This picture was his first chance to load a clip and fire a SA pistol. He had a difficult time loading at first but it is awkward to load a clip I have to admit. We did the same safety review and I handed him the gun without a round in the chamber. He thought it was loaded and did a good job of not flinching. He was surprised that it didn't go off but I explained the flinch test to him. This gun has a deep handle for his hand so he sometime had issues with the rear safety and the long trigger pull distance. 15 Yds was not getting him on the 8 x 11" paper so I had him step to 10 yds where he started dropping on the paper. I decided to try a speed round at 10 paces to understand if I was papering with a this rapid rate of fire. I believe I had 11 out of the 16 on the paper. So I felt pretty good with that. I am shooting about 5" to the left so I would assume I need to work on my trigger pull form. I suspect if I rotate my grip one way or the other I could minimize this trigger push issue. I will have to bench it to verify that it is sighted in. Some one could probably spot the problem immediately, so throw me a bone if you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Thump Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 I think his shooting form looks real good... Don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Thump Posted July 5, 2009 Author Share Posted July 5, 2009 Perspective of his shooting form from the back view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted July 5, 2009 Moderators Share Posted July 5, 2009 Looks like fun, so that's Thump Jr [H], nice to be doing something together and learning a little safety at the same time. [Y] I know he thinks dad has a cool job, every young dude loves speakers ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Nice pickup, Professor. I handled the XDs before purchasing my Glock and liked the safety features on the XD but the Glock felt a bit better in my hand. Everything is a tradeoff, no? When I first bought the gun I was at the range doing some shooting and someone handed me one an uplula mag loader. I can load the mags by hand no problem but the final round (13) is a bit tight. The uplula makes loading a breeze. http://maglula.com/ I think mine was around $25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelA Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I thought the XD came with a mag loader. Is that just the XDm model that comes with the loader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy W Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Good choice on the XD, good price too. I've tried tham all (Ok not ALL of them) and the XD is still the best in my hand. I think his shooting form looks real good... Don't you? The "tea cup" grip with the supporting hand is not a good thing. Grip the gun as tightly as you can. Don't forget to grip with your pinky as well - pulling the shot low and left is usually caused by gripping more tightly the instant the shot is fired. In anticipation of the shot the body will subconsiously is trying to control the recoil, so starting with the grip already as tight as it will go prevents pulling low and left, and this is a very common issue. Then wrap the non shooting hand around the shooting hand, thumbs side by side, left a little futher out than the right. Push with shooting arm, pull with the no shooting arm, fully extend but don't lock the elbows. Maintain the sight picture while pressing the trigger to the rear, keep your eyes open (this takes a lot of practice) and when the shot is fired hold the trigger to the rear and follow through and watch as the sights come back on the target. Hold for a two count then reset the trigger. Lather rinse repeat. I would also start closer, about 15 feet (five yards), until you can shoot a 2" slow fire group on the center of the target. BTW - what "earplugs" is he using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester21 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 It looks to me like he may have his right hand too far rotated too far to the right. He should try adjusting his grip so that the bone of his arm is in a straight line with the gun. this may seem a bit unnatural at first but a strong grip with the right thumb further toward the front of the pistol provides a better sighting plane and a stronger grip.try taking a breath of air - then releasing a small amount- and ever so slowly exhaling as the trigger is pulled (for target shooting applications). ALso it is difficult for some to hold dead on the center of the target with a handgun. I like a SLIGHT floating motion with the trigger going off as I pass through the X ring. The first thing to do is to bench rest the gun in sand bags and shoot at ..say 50 feet..and see exactly where the gun is shooting with your particular ammo. You have to remember that a pistol has a very short sight radius and any little thing will cause magnifying impact error.i am a firm believer that everyone needs to learn on a long barrel revolver- 38 special or less in caliber. Once you "get it" you can apply your skill to more difficult applications. Also try to learn to plink or do informal paper shooting using mainly the front sight- weaning yourself of the rear sight for anyhting except precision target work. These are things that I learned from a military competition shooter using a govt..45 Practice is critical- difficult with the ammo situation. My 2 cents worth - hope it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I thought the XD came with a mag loader. Is that just the XDm model that comes with the loader? My Glock came with a mag loader but it doesn't compare to the uplula. I believe the XDs all come w/a loader as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Thump Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Image X5 earplugs... Thanks for the advice. I can now see why that would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Thump Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Yes the latest XD's come with a mag loader. I bought mine used. It was a 2004 model so there was no gear provided in the generation. I believe the gun is the same though. I suspect it wasn't fired much either. We probably put 150 rounds through it this weekend which is too easy to do with a big clip gun. That may have been more than the previous life. Winchester, Thanks for the advice... I will concentrate on the grip issues first. His hand is small and the trigger stroke is very long from saftey on to release, so he probably was trying to adjust for the depth of the handle - trigger dimension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JL Sargent Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I would like to try the XD-45. Here is some general info on the XD pistol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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