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Better investment: Adding Second Sub or Quality Amp?


Klipschter

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I will be upgrading my receiver in my system pretty soon. But I have also been looking at amps--either an Emotiva XPA-5 or Rotel RMB-1095. If I get the Rotel and a $800-1000 receiver a second subwoofer is pretty much out of the question. But I could go the cheaper route, and get a >$1000 receiver and the Emotiva and get a second JL-Audio F113 subwoofer down the road. What would you guys do in my position?

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I would say get a quality amp. You already have a beast of a sub(130lb and 2500w). Get the amp and a mid- priced receiver with good DAC's and you will be on your way. Your mids and highs in your system are in much need of amplification, you definitely have the low frequencies covered. By the way, I want your cherry RS-52's, and I want them now. They are not in production anymore and are hard to find on the used market.

Bill

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Willland-You said to pick a receiver with good DACs. Could you recommend some? I've been looking at the new receivers in Pioneer's VSX line. Both the VSX-21TXH and the VSX-23TXH. I just noticed the other day on Klipsch's website that the cherry finish is no longer given as an option on the RS-52s. They are great surround speakers. Even with their small subwoofer drivers they are capable of creating enveloping explosions when watching action movies and playing video games. And yes the cherry finish looks amazing. Glad I got them when I did if they are no longer available.

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I would say get a quality amp.  You already have a beast of a sub(130lb and 2500w).  Get the amp and a mid- priced receiver with good DAC's and you will be on your way.  Your mids and highs in your system are in much need of amplification, you definitely have the low frequencies covered.  By the way, I want your cherry RS-52's, and I want them now.  They are not in production anymore and are hard to find on the used market.

Bill

Just did some research and found the Pioneer receiver I was looking at has Wolfson WM8728 192 kHz / 24-bit DAC. Is this sufficient? Also why are good DACs important when using separates?

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The amp. An amp with at least twice your speakers rating, if not more. The headroom translates to extra punch for the low freqs which tend to drag down most amps, hence the need for subwoofers. Bass can steal most if not all of the reserve power in amps, and with no reserve, the whole freq range suffers. I am speaking from a vintage standpoint, with some of these new class D amps, I am not sure how they are geared to supply short term high demand passes in the music.

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Just did some research and found the Pioneer receiver I was looking at has Wolfson WM8728 192 kHz / 24-bit DAC. Is this sufficient? Also why are good DACs important when using separates?

When I was referring to DAC's, I was mainly talking about audio DAC'S(the Wolfson's you mentioned are video DAC's). With that said, the Pioneers you are considering have Burr Brown 192 kHz/24 bit, which with those you can't go wrong. Good Audio DAC's in a receiver are really important when you listen to alot of 2 channel music and do not have a good CD or DVD player with quality DAC's. In that case you would let the receiver(digital connection from player) do the converting. Either Pioneer with an amp and your Sony BD player will make a fine combination.

Bill

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could be wrong but I believe the RS-52 is still in production. Where did you hear this?

I was talking about the cherry(vinyl) RS-52's. Vann's and One-Call had a few of them for sale less than a year ago. A Klipsch rep once told me that the cherry was slated for the European market and those that were for sale were leftovers without a home. Professor Thump, if you do some digging for me(us), you might get a lead on where I can get a pair.

Bill

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The amp.  An amp with at least twice your speakers rating, if not more.  The headroom translates to extra punch for the low freqs which tend to drag down most amps, hence the need for subwoofers.  Bass can steal most if not all of the reserve power in amps, and with no reserve, the whole freq range suffers.  I am speaking from a vintage standpoint, with some of these new class D amps, I am not sure how they are geared to supply short term high demand passes in the music.

When you say twice the rating of my speakers you are referring to the wattage ranking correct? Because the power ranking on my RF-82s is 150W RMS/600W peak. So this means I'd have to get an amp offering at least 300 watts per channel if I were to follow your recommendation. Amp(s) that powerful may be out of my price range. To get that kind of power from a Rotel amp I'd have to upgrade to an RB-1092 two channel 500 watt amp which retails for $2,500. Is 500 watts overkill and would it be a waste of money in my case, or would I be satisfied with an amp giving me 200 watts per channel?

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either an Emotiva XPA-5 or Rotel RMB-1095

fistly like everyone said and totally agree, amp over second sub easily that is of course if your sub is good match for your speakers. I truly believe in a normal HT situation one quality matching sub is what you need to take care of the lows unless you have a large room then yes a second sub would be beneficial.

As for the Amp, i am using a Rotel and LOVE it with Klipsch, My Yamaha AVR is connected to Rotel. in saying that the Emotiva has made a lot of noise around here mostly in a positive way.. many say best bang for the buck...

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Unless you're listening in an auditorium, I'd guess that mighty f113 has the bottom end covered fairly well. A better-quality amp may allow you to hear more detail in your music and bring you a bit closer to the live music experience.

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I would sell the F113 and invest in better subwoofage. It would of course come at the expense of more floor real estate, which may not be an option, but I throw it out there nonetheless. I don't know what your constraints are, but you could do some serious improvement in that area for about the same investment.

As far as amplification....I think that's one of the areas with the smallest margin of improvement. There's a bunch of caveats to that statement, but in general I've found it's better to put more money into the speakers than the electronics.

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I would sell the F113 and invest in better subwoofage. It would of course come at the expense of more floor real estate, which may not be an option, but I throw it out there nonetheless. I don't know what your constraints are, but you could do some serious improvement in that area for about the same investment.

As far as amplification....I think that's one of the areas with the smallest margin of improvement. There's a bunch of caveats to that statement, but in general I've found it's better to put more money into the speakers than the electronics.

Get rid of the F113 that I already have? No way. I'd sell my firstborn child before getting rid of my Fathom subwoofer. Floor real estate is at a premium in my small room (9X17 feet) so the JL, which packs a punch in a small footprint, is great for me. I will eventually have more room when I move out of my parents when I'm done with school but I'm working with what I've got right now. Frankly, I don't need a second sub but I'd rather buy it now when I'm not paying rent than when I'm struggling on my own without mom and dad's support. Then I could have two subs when I move into a larger space. I'm no expert but from what I've read JL Audio's subs and Paradigm's sub 25 are the best subwoofers available unless you plan on taking out a second mortgage for a subwoofer and plan on using an airplane hanger for a home theater. I think any improvement that I would get by selling the Fathom and getting something new would be negligible at best.

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Don't be so fast to dismiss the good Doctor's advice, Klipschter... He IS an expert and he knows his subwoofage.

It may be hard to imagine anything better than the Fathom right now, but you might never know what you could be missing if you let yourself get caught up in brand names and third-party reviews.

You could elevate you listening experience to a whole new level. [;)]

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