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Biamping


gartenman

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I read part of those and noticed the first sentence said essentailly, "if you have $25,000....." If you read that, I could see you stopping very quickly before finding out more about it.

I notice you seem to have some LaScalas so you COULD be a candidate for biamping (key word could...not would or should)

Benefit: Dividing amps on a single speaker to share the workload (amp for woofer, amp for tweeter). In my case, I could put a solid state amp on my woofer and have the strong punch a solid state gives, yet, I could then have a delicate 300B amp on my HF section and get some of the holographic "magic" that people associate with tube amps. Kind of the best of both worlds. You can then mix in some signal delay so the woofer is "time aligned" with the HF section and that will also bring the sound into better focus.

How to: In your case, you'd have to be TRI-amping with your LaScalas... if you wanted to biamp and take your LaScalas to a higher plane of sound, you could turn them into "JubeScalas" and put a huge K402 on top of them or the smaller K510 horn. You would then need a SINGLE active crossover for them and a SINGLE solid state amp. You have the rest.

You'd take the signal out of your preamp, into the active crossover where you'd split the signal into two halves. On the output side of the active crossover, you would take the low freq leg to your (newly acquired yet inexpensive) solid state amp and hook that up to your LaScala woofers. You would then take the HF leg of the signal and hook it up to your tubed Jolida and take the Jolida to the HF section.

You would then snap your fingers and tell your wife to go fetch you your beverage of choice and to not forget to bring your slippers on her way back. Heck, you might even have her clip your cigar and feed you some grapes as you prepare to then simply sit back and enjoy the sound improvement.

You will then of course, wake up with a pained eye....as you wonder why it's black...and was it all a dream?

You will find out that it was not a dream...you actually instructed your wife to do the above and she of course, whopped you upside the head HOWEVER, your system sounded so fantastic after that happened, you decided to simply sleep in the chair and enjoy the sound.

I'd call that one of the undocumented benefits of biamping!!

Seriously though, you DO seem to have all the ingredients other than crossover, amp and a decision as to use part of your existing passive crossover or go all out and take your LaScalas to a 2-way speaker and maximize their potential.

It's not that hard (if I can do it, anyone can!!) and since you have the bulk of the hardware, it need not be that expensive.

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Would someone in laymans terms explain the purpose,benefits and "how to's" of biamping please?

Layman's How-To terms:

Biamping = two amplifier channels driving one speaker.

Purpose and Benefits: bi-amping separates the drive of each speaker woofer away from the other drivers, and that woofer (woofers usually take the most power to drive since they are usually the least efficient drivers) will have a single amplifier channel driving it separately. The real benefit is that the midrange and the tweeter don't have to share their amplifer channel with the woofer- and that can be a big deal, especially if you like to have clean, high-output from your setup (and most Klipsch-o-philes want this...), then biamping may be preferred.

How-To: you bypass one of the crossover connections on your speaker (usually the woofer) to directly drive the woofer with one amplifer channel. In order to do this, you must use an electronic crossover (such as an ElectroVoice Dx38 or similar processor) to split the input signal for that speaker into a high-frequency channel and a low-frequency channel.

If you are using stereo amplifiers (solid state or tube type)- you would use one stereo amplfier per speaker. If you are using monoblocks (solid state or tube), you would need two monoblocks per speaker.

For La Scalas, the issue is that you have three drivers per speaker. So you have the choice of bi-amping (using one stereo amplifier per speaker) the woofer with one amplifier channel, and the midrange-tweeter with the other amplifier channel together, using the existing passive crossover in the speaker for the midrange-tweeter only The other combinations of tweeter-only or midrange-only biamping schemes are usually depreciated approaches.

If you consider the "JubScala" approach, this alternative replaces the midrange and tweeter of the La Scala with one driver (usually a Klipsch K-69) and a horn (usually a K-510 "small" horn, or a K-402 "large" horn). This is a really good upgrade -- outstanding by some people's testimonials. This is a two-way speaker system. Usually, people just leave their unused midrange and tweeter drivers in the existing La Scala cabinet when they do this, so that they can sell the "stock" La Scalas later when they upgrade to full Jubilees.

Now, tri-amping takes bi-amping one step further: one amplifier channel for woofer, one for midrange, and one for tweeter (for 3-way speakers only - like the La Scala, Cornwall, Heresy, etc.). This eliminates the (passive) crossover in the speakers in favor of electronic crossover(s), i.e., it would take two Dx38 electronic crossovers to tri-amp two La Scalas. It would addtionally take a 6-channel amplifier (or three stereo amplifers) to drive two speakers. Since amplifers can be cheap relative to the cost of high-quality after-market passive crossovers, the difference in cost is really focused on the cost of the electronic crossover(s).

[Edit] Electronic crossovers usually have steeper crossover filters (this is good) than passive crossovers, and also offer very good EQ control and delay to match correct for woofer/horn delay in full horn-loaded speakers. This is a big deal. Steep crossover filters in passive crossovers that you can buy aftermarket are usually expensive, and they effectively cannot correct for woofer/horn delay.

Chris

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If I understand isn't that what goldmund does in his million dollar home theater but to a further ex tint. Quick question I have a 4 channel kenwood amp split buy a and b, could one use this for a non-true bi amping. just using a active crossover to split the the high from the lows. I know I would have the tweets and mids on one amp but is it really necessary to power those two separate. Anybody recommend a active crossover for this on a pair of Corns or is it not worth it with that amp(which is a Kenwood basic m2a). If any of this makes since what I just asked feel free to responed

duder

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If I understand isn't that what goldmund does in his million dollar home theater but to a further ex tint. Quick question I have a 4 channel kenwood amp split buy a and b, could one use this for a non-true bi amping. just using a active crossover to split the the high from the lows. I know I would have the tweets and mids on one amp but is it really necessary to power those two separate. Anybody recommend a active crossover for this on a pair of Corns or is it not worth it with that amp(which is a Kenwood basic m2a). If any of this makes since what I just asked feel free to responed

duder

I guess I could read what everyone else posted and figure something else out, I like the idea that you could use a tube mono block for the hf section and a ss for the sub. Great readings thanks for the post.

duder

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"I have a 4 channel kenwood amp split buy a and b, .......which is a Kenwood basic m2a"

Which is a 2 channel amplifier, so you need another amplifier if you want to biamp.

That amplifier is huge, over 600W at 4 ohms on program material.

The only reason you might want to biamp would be to use a flea powered tube amplifier on the mids and highs and still be able to play a good loud volume.

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http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=speakers&n=138657&highlight=cornwall+djk&r=

"Let us adopt the phrase 'duo-amping' to distinguish bi-amp(using a frequency dividing network ahead of the amps)from the practice of using two amps with their inputs wyed together driving the speaker crossover sections.The phrase 'vertical bi-amping' has low popularity and is too similar.All it will take is a little concerted effort to eliminate the confusion."

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=general&n=7542&highlight=duo-amping&r=&session=

"If you use an electronic crossover and bi-amp a speaker like a Klipsch Cornwall with a 50W amp on the bass and a 10W amp on the mid and hf it will play as loud as a 400W amp through the passive crossover.

If you 'bi-amp' your Newform speakers with a 250W amp on the bass and a 160W amp on the hf without an elecronic crossover it will play as loud as the 160W amp would play running both.

The 4:1 benefit for bi-amping is only there when the spectrum is divided ahead of the power amps and when the division point is near the mid point of the spectral distribution of energy.On a voltage basis the division occurs around 250hz.This must be weighted by the peak to average ratio so that the equal energy point for above and below the crossover is about 500hz.This is also affected by the slope of the crossover.For the example of the Klipsch Cornwall it has a 600hz crossover point.If the drivers were the same efficency then 50W + 50W would = 200W through the passive crossover.In reality the HF is 10dB more efficent than the LF so we only need 50W + 5W to = 200W.If the HF remains undistorted it will mask distortion from the LF amp driven slightly into clipping.

This means that if we use a 10W HF amp with a 50W LF amp it would take 400W to play the same level undistorted through the passive crossover.

If you 'bi-amp' your Newform speakers without an electronic crossover each amp will be receiving full range signal and will clip at the same point it did with only one amp hooked up to the speakers.It does sound different to do this, but make no mistake, you will not be getting the benefits of dividing the signal ahead of the amplifiers."

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=general&n=164118&highlight=cornwall+bi-amp+djk&r=&session=

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i have no idea of biamping.. but my opinion of it all - if you dont know what biamping is then you dont need to worry about it.. it is for those audiofiles (not audifile - remember that thread).

Majority of people would just need to keep the steel plate thingy behind the speaker to connect both red and black terminals and then just connect one pair of banana plugs in and enjoy the sounds..

Of course this is all just my opinion as I have no idea what biamping is,,

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And I'd suggest if someone doesn't know anything about it (as I didn't), simply ask and learn. You might discover an improvement that leaves you wondering why you didn't investigate it sooner!

I'm here as living proof of someone who was a "biamp dummy" to a successful biamper (with admittedly a couple hiccups on my way, but those were mostly generated by myself by doing my own wiring)

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"You would then snap your fingers and tell your wife to go fetch you

your beverage of choice and to not forget to bring your slippers on her

way back. Heck, you might even have her clip your cigar and feed you

some grapes as you prepare to then simply sit back and enjoy the sound

improvement.

You will then of course, wake up with a pained eye....as you wonder why it's black...and was it all a dream?

You

will find out that it was not a dream...you actually instructed your

wife to do the above and she of course, whopped you upside the head

HOWEVER, your system sounded so fantastic after that happened, you

decided to simply sleep in the chair and enjoy the sound.

I'd call that one of the undocumented benefits of biamping!!"

Absoutly ROTFLMAO, Coytee!!! One of the greatest audiofile statments of all time....

Cornman

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i have no idea of biamping.. but my opinion of it all - if you dont know what biamping is then you dont need to worry about it.. it is for those audiofiles (not audifile - remember that thread).

Majority of people would just need to keep the steel plate thingy behind the speaker to connect both red and black terminals and then just connect one pair of banana plugs in and enjoy the sounds..

Of course this is all just my opinion as I have no idea what biamping is,,

i've always lived by the creed that knowledge is power...what if?

i agree that i don't know everything there is to know about biamping... i knew some, but just needed more information before pursuing this option...

ignorance is not an excuse for not searching for ways of self improvement in all aspects of life... not just biamping...

the only stupid question is the one not asked...

if every person listened to their naysayers whenever they wanted to try something new or different then obviously society would still be in the Dark Ages...

i appreciate every member here who casted not scorn at my ignorance, rather took time out of their busy day to enlighten me...

it is due to all your unselfish, expert knowledge that i have been able to take my audio experience to a higher level...

thank you all!!!

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I must of had a moment, a bad one, when I posted my original post in this thread. Of all the places to have a BAD moment why, oh why, did my moment have to be in the 2 channel section...

of course if you dont know ask, after all that's what forums are for.. I have definitely asked my share of questions which many have helped me out in my journey which I am very greatful and because of this my system has never sounded better.

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