winchester21 Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 Have to disagree on that point. Running QBs- particulary Vick are not well liked by defenses at any point. Nobody will want to be the team or D man that Michael Vick makes his comeback on the back of.Vick has always beeen a smart @ss and this little transgression will pave the way for some linebacker or safety to take his knees or head out from under him with a cheap shot. And they will be compensated for doing it.Big trophy and bragging rights to whoever puts him out of football for good. Not a morals issue. Pride thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormin Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Please for the record- I DO NOT value animal life over human life. Read my initial post. Here's my point Society is numb to drunk driving deaths, murder, clild abuse- ect ect. It is so commmonplace that it goes unnoticed. Vick did some really sick stuff that is off the chart and quite unique at this point. You could not have drawn a better blueprint on how to piss as many people off at one time as possible. I do not fall into this group but there are many people who think more of their dogs than they do people.I am certainly not trying to make a case that this train of thought is morally correct. But I stand by what I said- You can get in more trouble harming an animal in such a manner that you can for killing someone. A guy just got 45 years in prison for running a Vick style operation in SC. You can find many legal documents outlining the details of the Vick case on the internet including a copy of his indictment. The gory details of rape stands- electrocution- and baiting certainly appear to be true. Otherwise he would have walked. Well spoken. You had me worried there for a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStewMan Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Winchester has a point. in something totally unrelated to the vick case, i saw a survey on television a year or so ago, where more people said they would risk their lives to save their pet than to try to save a stranger. That is both understandable and sad. we obviously have a relationship, so to speak, with our pets; and nothing with a stranger. But, if the issue was animal life or human life--the human life doesn't always win. So, i totally understand what winchester was saying. something absolutely mind blowing recently happened in Massachusetts (i believe). a 23 year old girl, that was 8 months pregnant, was murdered and her stomach cut open and her baby stolen. Nobody is saying that what vick did was acceptable in any way, shape, or form--it was totally reprehensible; but, i'll bet this poor girl's murder won't get any protests, and by next week, it probably won't even be in the papers anymore. And we'll hear about what Vick did every Sunday. i don't think he'll be a target on the field. yesterday on sports radio the host was saying that many nfl players are tweeting about this, and in support of vick, some even saying that there should be no suspension at all. other player's have said that, although they themselves haven't participated in it, that it was very popular where they came from. Personally, i have zero idea how widespread dog fighting is--but it sounds like it is far more common than i ever imagined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 But, if the issue was animal life or human life--the human life doesn't always win. Sometimes cuteness is the deciding factor. Lots of sympathy for baby seals, but none for baby cows raised to become veal, or for pigs and chickens destined to be served together as a chicken-and-rib combo.BTW, that Massachusetts story is horriific. Very strange things go on in some people's heads, to think of doing things like that.Who needs to watch horror movies anymore? There's enough horror on the six o'clock news... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 It is ridiculous beyond belief to read nonsense like "strapped them to rape stands". Get a grip. Vick abused animals and did his time but you guys equating animals to humans have your own issues You get a grip, watch the show do some research at what was removed from his property. Show me where I made this equation of humans and animals. Really show me any post I have ever made that ever espoused that. I’d suggest you resolve you own issues before you cast your aspirations on people by making BS claims like that. Did I name you? Do you not understand "you guys" is a generalization. If you equated animals to humans then it means you. If you didn't, then why are you wigging out? I am well aware you didn't coin the phrase "rape stand." As to your other comments, I know what was removed from his property and I know animal nuts use the term "rape stand" in order to further their anthropomorphization of animals. Simple fact is such methods are used in many breeding operations to minimize the damage to the animals whether they be dogs, cows, or horses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnlw7 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Equating animals to humans is ridiculous.they treat their pets better than their fellow man.A dog attacked my liitle sister years ago and she had to have surgery.The owner had no remorse until it got on my property and was shot.He tried to get me for cruelty to animals and lost.He spent a huge amount of money on an animal that he couldn't control stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 It is ridiculous beyond belief to read nonsense like "strapped them to rape stands". Get a grip. Vick abused animals and did his time but you guys equating animals to humans have your own issues You get a grip, watch the show do some research at what was removed from his property. Show me where I made this equation of humans and animals. Really show me any post I have ever made that ever espoused that. Id suggest you resolve you own issues before you cast your aspirations on people by making BS claims like that. Did I name you? Do you not understand "you guys" is a generalization. If you equated animals to humans then it means you. If you didn't, then why are you wigging out? I am well aware you didn't coin the phrase "rape stand." As to your other comments, I know what was removed from his property and I know animal nuts use the term "rape stand" in order to further their anthropomorphization of animals. Simple fact is such methods are used in many breeding operations to minimize the damage to the animals whether they be dogs, cows, or horses. You quoted me while posting right after me not much of an attempt to generalize there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 You quoted me while posting right after me not much of an attempt to generalize there. Last I checked there were three sentences there. Are they all quoting you? Are they all directed at you? Think about it. Does "you guys" specify YOU? A cursory look at the thread would point out it was others who appeared to equate and MANY others objected to it as well. Yet you cry foul. I could take you step by step through the thought process which links your statement to the previous statements - actually I already alluded to it - which prompted my reply but why bother. You are disgusted by Vick's actions and so am I; time to let sleeping dogs lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 You are disgusted by Vick's actions and so am I; time to let sleeping dogs lie. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I'm disappointed in Tarheel. Only one locked thread? You aren't trying hard enough man. As for the NFL, Forget about it. Go NHL. What other sport has a free minor league system (college football) yet still manages to push the limits for raw greed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I'm disappointed in Tarheel. Only one locked thread? You aren't trying hard enough man. Ain't that the truth OT..... must be mellowing out in my old age. Who remembers the last Vick thread. I think it was my old buddy mas that got things going saying something to the effect that he was not interested in the thread and that we should not be either. He suggested that we focus on things in our own circle of influance. Later I think my ancestry was questioned[:^)]. mas and I talked again a couple of times after that through private messages and in private I kind of liked him. I remember coming home on a Sunday afternoon right after mas posted and the thread had been locked. Oldbuckster read it before the lock and responded but I never asked him about that post. As always Buck came to my defense. Man I miss that guy[] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I would not be surprised if there is not a bounty on him when he does make it back on the field. I doubt it. The NFL really doesn't care what he did. They only care in how his actions affect sponsor dollars. Why do you think no one has jumped up and signed him? Because teams are morally outraged over his actions? No, they're scared of loosing sponsors and PETA parties in their parking lot. As far as the players are concerned, he's just another player. They have their own contracts to worry about. After going through this whole thread many good points have been brought up but my feelings are if the NFL or any other sports group wants these type of people as their players what are we telling our children and the youth of America, in my eyes part of the moral collapse in this great country stems from allowing low lifes like Vick to even get their jobs back. I beleive in serving your time but like was said who ever gets their top paying job back? I have pretty much lost all faith in all pro sports these days[] What if Vick turns out to be an awesome player and as was mentioned many will just let this go but once again what is it telling society today! Honor, integrity and truth have been replaced by the almighty dollar[] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStewMan Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I would not be surprised if there is not a bounty on him when he does make it back on the field. I doubt it. The NFL really doesn't care what he did. They only care in how his actions affect sponsor dollars. Why do you think no one has jumped up and signed him? Because teams are morally outraged over his actions? No, they're scared of loosing sponsors and PETA parties in their parking lot. As far as the players are concerned, he's just another player. They have their own contracts to worry about. After going through this whole thread many good points have been brought up but my feelings are if the NFL or any other sports group wants these type of people as their players what are we telling our children and the youth of America, in my eyes part of the moral collapse in this great country stems from allowing low lifes like Vick to even get their jobs back. I beleive in serving your time but like was said who ever gets their top paying job back? I have pretty much lost all faith in all pro sports these days What if Vick turns out to be an awesome player and as was mentioned many will just let this go but once again what is it telling society today! Honor, integrity and truth have been replaced by the almighty dollar Kaiser--one thing about your idea, it sure would make looking for a job a lot easier as there would be few people allowed to work. maybe then i'd get a promotion! oh wait, i was a drug addict 25 years ago, so i'd be out of work too. NO i'm not picking on you either--just joking around. I raised four kids all now in their 20s & 30s. i taught them not to look at these people as role models--we just don't know enough about them to be able to model our lives after them. i like what charles barkley said, "i'm not a role model. if anything i do causes your little brat to do something wrong, blame it on your crappy parenting." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester21 Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 Like it or not these thugs are role models. My problem is the NFL giving these criminals chance after chance after chance to straighen up where they obviously have no intention to do so. This makes everything OK and sends the message that ant type of behavior -regardless of how unthinkable- is acceptable. Expect a slap on the wrist- but expect to be allowed to play after a small scolding. Its not my kids that i am worried about. It's the fatherless poverty group who see Michael Vick as a hero who"got over on the man' and is now back to superstar status. I really believe that this type of role model encourages them to break the law, commit crimes, and make society more dangerous for the rest of us. The see Michael vick driving a caddy Escalade a year out of prison so they go and get themselves one by stealing it or carjacking. Everybodys gotta be a gangta. IMHO the whole Vick type situation is strong contributing factor to hris problem. Not necesarly this one case but the combined effect of similar scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Its not my kids that i am worried about. It's the fatherless poverty group who see Michael Vick as a hero who"got over on the man' and is now back to superstar status. I really believe that this type of role model encourages them to break the law, commit crimes, and make society more dangerous for the rest of us. The see Michael vick driving a caddy Escalade a year out of prison so they go and get themselves one by stealing it or carjacking. Everybodys gotta be a gangta. IMHO the whole Vick type situation is strong contributing factor to hris problem. I have a theory that criminals, except totally psycho ones who act alone, only do things (sometimes horrible things) if they think that at least a few people approve of the activity and maybe support it. If there weren't so many songs about shooting and beating people, it wouldn't be done as often.On a related note, I've read that 1% of Americans are serving time in prison. Since that's just an average, it's logical to assume that the numbers are much lower in certain neighbourhoods and much higher in other neighbourhoods. My point is that if lots of people in your "hood" are behind bars, especially people that you may think are kind of cool, going to jail loses its stigma and its deterrent effect.If you figure that you won't lose respect on the street by going to jail and may even gain some street cred and possibly run into some buddies when you're in there, incarcerating people like that is a waste of time, other than temporarily stopping that one perp from doing crimes.Here in BC, ads are being run on TV featuring young women who associate or used to associate with gang members, with the women describing the gang members as various types of losers that they regret ever being with. Hopefully, that will cause a few young men to think twice before doing something stupid and illegal. After all, if you can't impress the women with your actions, it's time to try some different actions, maybe ones that won't cause you to wind up in jail or dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brac Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Sometimes cuteness is the deciding factor. Lots of sympathy for baby seals, but none for baby cows raised to become veal, or for pigs and chickens destined to be served together as a chicken-and-rib combo. Now your making me hungry! Dogs are great friends! If vick wanted some blood sport, he should have went with cock fighting, people are only attached to chicken when it arrives in a bucket. I think the bigest point has aleady been made. If anyone one of us did this there would be NO second chance, so there should'nt be for him either. This whole thing where so-called celibs and congressmen get to do anything they want and the punishment is far and away from what it would be for us. (the great people that make up this country) This trend should be reversed, if you are in the spot lite, for being an actor, sports star, politician, or anything else, when you break the law you should receive more of a sentance not less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 ...Vick abused animals and did his time but you guys equating animals to humans have your own issues. I definitely love my dog more than I do most humans and if I come across someone beating a dog they will know in no uncertain terms that I value their canine's life more than I do the abuser. [:|] I contend those that will beat an animal will very likely carry it over to abusing human beings and usually it is their loved ones. [bs] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 TKDA, I think your take on this sounds about right. My best advice to anyone desiring to abuse an animal would be to be in no promixity to you at all. Of course, maybe I wouldn't offer the advice out of a desire for justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester21 Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 I do not see teams lining up to sign him. So far nobody wants the fallout. Canada???????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Adams Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Interesting thread. Many good points. Honestly.....I found myself vascilating (sp?) back & forth. I too believe in the non-judging/forgiveness thing. But I'm also not convinced that his only option for being a "productive member of society" is playing football. Seriously, is there NOTHING else he can do?? Maybe what he really needs to hear is that he's done his time, he's forgiven, but professional football no longer has a place for him and that he needs to start a new path in life. Who knows....maybe that new path will be his testimony to being sorry for what he did. I dunno..... And hey....here's another data point fer ya. Pete Rose still ain't elligible for the Hall of Fame and the worst he did was bet on his on team! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts