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RSW-15 and F113


Macallan

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I have a question about these 2 subs. I currently own the RSW-15 and have been very happy but may upgrade in the future. I have read great things about the F113 but wonder how a sub with one 13 inch driver could compete with one that has 2 15s? Does the RSW-15 really have 2 15 inch drivers, since one is passive? I understand that the F113 gets excellent reviews and has excellent excursion but can it compete with the RSW-15 in music and movies?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi

I also have an RSW 15. I also just got an MFW 15 from AV123 - but lots of EMI FM interference so far. In my moderate sized bedroom about 15 x 15 x 12, each is awesome. Check on avs forums for Craigsub and his huge subwoofer thread, 100s of pgs. On pg 1 it has the summaries, but no RSW as memory serves me. You should probably read pg 1. The thread is probably about 2 years old now and closed about a yr or so ago. The 113 was a top dog - and at a top price.

NOLA

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Same principal as vehicle engines, it's an air pump,and what you can't pump in VOLUME you must pump in DISPLACEMENT. As stated, the F113 has a MUCH longer piston excursion than the RSW-15, plus tons of power to back that up. Two different approaches to the same (near) end result. I will tell you JL Audio is par excellence in SQ and build quality.

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The RSW-15 is gonna play louder, lower, and cleaner than the F113.
The only reason to go with the F113 is when space is at a premium, but
if you already have an RSW-15, then space obviously isn't the biggest
concern [;)]


For $2500 or whatever the F113 is selling for
these days, I think the only way to better the RSW-15 would be to go the DIY route...


Btw, a
passive radiator is the same thing as a port, except you don't get the
port chuffing and pipe resonances.


Does anyone have Tom Noussaine's insane subwoofer list? I can never
remember the link, but I know the RSW-15 is still in the top 10 of
subwoofers. I dunno if he's been keeping up the list or not, but I
always felt the RSW-15 never really got the recognition it deserved on
the Klipsch forum....despite the fact that it gets good marks
everywhere else.


I personally would go with the RT-12d before the F113...but it'd probably take at least two of them to match a single RSW-15.


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I think I'm jaded by all the marketing hooplah surrounding it. I don't think it's a bad subwoofer by any stretch of the imagination...it's just nowhere near the cat's meow. Btw, I also agree that the RT-12d isn't the best option out there either, but I still think it's better than the F113....and not just because I'm a crazy klipsch fanatic on a klipsch forum. For what it's worth, it also happens to measure better too...but then some people prefer the sound of more distortion.

I would definitely like to hear the PB13-Ultra sometime.

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Yep. If you watch the rear of the cabinet during loud playing, you'll see it flex quite a bit.

That sounds like something is wrong. I can't recall any of the RSW-15's I've played with exhibiting that behavior.

He may be talking about the driver???? Not the cabinet (hopefully).

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  • 2 weeks later...

I finally auditioned the JL F113 with music that I'm familiar with, and in a pretty decent room. All I can say is, WHAT A BIG LETDOWN!! I am not sure how these subs are touted as being at the top of the pack, but I was VERY un-impressed! Yes, it was properly set up and calibrated. I have spent a lot of time listening to different subs, including the rsw-15, and it is without a doubt much better than the JL. Both in SQ and probably even or slightly better on output.

For comparison's sake, there was another sub in the room made by BG which is an isobaric set-up. A design not used much anymore. It has two 10" drivers with a 500 watt rms amp. It was very impressive in output, depth, and tightness. Needless to say, it was leaps and bounds above the JL. I am going to have it in my set-up to audition it for awhile. Here is the link to it:

http://bgcorp.com/PDFs/R-210i-literature.pdf

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I finally auditioned the JL F113 with music that I'm familiar with, and in a pretty decent room. All I can say is, WHAT A BIG LETDOWN!! I am not sure how these subs are touted as being at the top of the pack, but I was VERY un-impressed! Yes, it was properly set up and calibrated. I have spent a lot of time listening to different subs, including the rsw-15, and it is without a doubt much better than the JL. Both in SQ and probably even or slightly better on output.

For comparison's sake, there was another sub in the room made by BG which is an isobaric set-up. A design not used much anymore. It has two 10" drivers with a 500 watt rms amp. It was very impressive in output, depth, and tightness. Needless to say, it was leaps and bounds above the JL. I am going to have it in my set-up to audition it for awhile. Here is the link to it:

http://bgcorp.com/PDFs/R-210i-literature.pdf

I think that 210i is a really cool design...is it a completely sealed box? 500W into 3/4 cubic feet is gonna be something around 110dB max theoretical output or somewhere thereabouts for that size cabinet. Definitely not an SPL sub, but I could see it sounding nice at more normal listening levels.

Did you think the BG went louder than the F113?

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The BG 210 is a sealed design, but has the good characteristics of a ported design that I like. Namely the deep extension, but without the bloat or chuff. The opposing direction of the drivers is supposed to make placement much easier since it all but does away with wave cancellation. It really surprised me how well balanced it sounded, but still had authority. I will hold off on making a final verdict on it until I have it in my system in a couple of weeks for a trial and I'll give a full report. I would say it was similar the the JL in respect to loudness. A 12" version of this would be hard to top for an all around performer. Hmm, maybe klipsch could try this concept on their next reference subs?

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Long time no see...

To clarify any debate Klipsch RSW15 VS JL Audio f113.

The Klipsch RSW15 rolls off very shrply below 25Hz,as it is tune(PR) is around that frequency,it is optimised for very high and clean SPL down where it matters most. That is 32Hz(or 31.5Hz). The displacement of the active rear driver is decent and is around half that of the f113 driver,excursion is less that half. The RSW15 matches well with even smallish sats and can be cut quite high.

The JL AUdio f113 is rolled off above 70Hz and is not a good match for small sats,where you can set the crossover point at 80Hz.This sub has little kick in the upper bass.It has better extension than the RSW15 and will play loder down deep(where the RSW15 can only hint).With this sub you better have larger mains or large stand/wall mounted speakers capable of a solid 50-60Hz LF extension.

In the built quality department,the JL takes it very easy here.From cabinet passing by the amp all the way to the driver.

I have both and all the RSW's and RT's as well as JL Fathom's. So my view is based on hands/ears on experience.

JLAudio has no upper punch so to speak, this is why some of the negatives. As it does move more air than the RSW-15(even with the help of the PR,as the PR moves ALOT when the active moves much less...read about how a active/passive system works). The people that are disapointed by the f113 have NOT heard the sub matched with proper gear the correct way. End of it. Too many newbs with long "experience" working in audio shops.

The JL Audio was since surpassed by sealed subs from Paradigm and a few others.Paradigm's Servo Sig 25 bests the JL in every respect from extension to SQ to output).And beats the RSW15 with ease in output and extension. The lone 15" active has more displacement than the active/passive combined on the RSW15.And we know you cannot add the max displacement of the active and passive,as in the real world at tune the active has little displacement when the PR it at its peak.

This takes nothing from the RSW15/12 and 10 these are classic Klipsch subs and great ones too.

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Let's keep the facts straight. The F113 does not dig deeper or play
louder than an RSW-15. It even employs its own sliding high pass filter
to prevent it from even attempting to reproduce frequencies below 30Hz
at volume.


It's not uncommon though for more distortion to sound like more bass....I'm personally more interested in high-fidelity. [:P]

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http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests-archived/8152-jl-audio-fathom-f113.html

Plus subs under the Christmas tree on ...

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_4/subwoofers-12-2001.html

The consistency is somewhat in line since the the HGS18 output is close to what Craig (AVS)measured with his DD18's.

[H]

The f113 max clean outout @ 20Hz will be higher than the RSW15's @ 20hz. Only when pushed hard the sliding high pass kicks in and we have a rolloff at 43Hz down(max output) the rolloff starts ~25Hz. Where the RSW15 starts sust south of 30Hz.The RSW15 did not even manage 100dB @ 20hz! So I do not know where you take your data? Any links?

I am not partial to any company,but saying the RSW15 has higher clean output below 25Hz is pushing things. Show me the measured data. Not some data gathered by company personel who always find creative ways to make their own product "Over perform". And then in real world tests ..."Oh we do not understand we got 6dB more here and there"...[:o] "This sub shook the parking lot so much the seismic activity went sky high..."

"Hmm at the gathering we saw our subs beat the competition" sure did,the fanboys where drunk and saw mirages. [:'(]

"Our products are class leaders" Ahem yes sir " We are the champs" sure are.

Ah I know what my ears like...DISTORTION! [:@]

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