DYI JUBILEE THOUGHTS. MAYBE A HYBRID??

[Fast1]

Well, per some other posts, I am having problems loving my reference RF7 system and just lacks that range and clarity I am seeking without having a fatiguing harshness. It has been brought up to take a listen to the Jubilee and I plan to do so in the next week or so if Bill is game. Problem is I more than likely will like what I hear and want to move ahead.

My questions are:

Does anyone have plans for these critters? Looks like most of the work is the wood work.

Can these work in an HT setup and if so, what would complement them for rears or CCs? these speakers look huge!

Is most of the wood just to get better bass reposnse? Since I have an HGS 18 by Velodyne, I don't lack much in bass. This just got me wondering if a hydrid would put a smile on the face by using acvite crossovers and the Jubilee horn over my RF7drivers?? Might seem odd but most of my problems seem to come from those horns so maybe a top mounted horn would work??? Anyone tried that? I might call Klipsch with some specs of the K402 horn and my drivers to see if they can be mated. If not, maybe a build is in my future.

OH, I did want to ask for somewhat of a comparison of the K horns and LaScalas against the Jubilee? Seems the Jubilee is a newer and more refined version of them??

[mark1101]

Range, clarity, fatiguing harshnes............and you are using Denon and Rotel. Hmm. Well, I wouldn't think it was the speakers that's for sure or they wouldn't have brought the RF-7 back into production. People love those things. I'm guessing you do not have the best synergy of components for the RF-7s. I'm not a reference guy but I've used Denon with Heritage.........and had the same harsh top end and fatiguing. You could also have placement and room issues but looking at your equipment list the Denon/Rotel thing sort of jumped out at me.

[dtel]

Well, per some other posts, I am having problems loving my reference RF7 system and just lacks that range and clarity I am seeking without having a fatiguing harshness. It has been brought up to take a listen to the Jubilee and I plan to do so in the next week or so if Bill is game. Problem is I more than likely will like what I hear and want to move ahead.

My questions are:

Does anyone have plans for these critters? Looks like most of the work is the wood work.

I don't know ?

Can these work in an HT setup and if so, what would complement them for rears or CCs? these speakers look huge!

Yes thats what Bill has..............They only look big in pictures [] want to see big? []

Is most of the wood just to get better bass reposnse? Since I have an HGS 18 by Velodyne, I don't lack much in bass. This just got me wondering if a hydrid would put a smile on the face by using acvite crossovers and the Jubilee horn over my RF7drivers?? Might seem odd but most of my problems seem to come from those horns so maybe a top mounted horn would work??? Anyone tried that? I might call Klipsch with some specs of the K402 horn and my drivers to see if they can be mated. If not, maybe a build is in my future.

I wouldn't call Klipsch for specs on the K402, talk to some who have them they can give you the info on the horn.

OH, I did want to ask for somewhat of a comparison of the K horns and LaScalas against the Jubilee? Seems the Jubilee is a newer and more refined version of them??

With all do respect YES.......Others can answer your questions in much more detail than me.

[Islander]

Does anyone have plans for these critters? Looks like most of the work is the wood work.

Actually, most of the work was in the engineering. The woodwork is the physical expression of all that research and development and only represents part of what it costs Klipsch to put the Jubilee on the market.

[Coytee]

Does anyone have plans for these critters?

There are no 'official' plans although there are a handful of people that have researched the AES papers and drawn up what appear to be good designs.

Looks like most of the work is the wood work

As well as getting the proper parts. Not impossible, just not something you're going to snap your fingers and do quickly.

Can these work in an HT setup

How big is your room? Wait til you see these things... even better, wait til you HEAR them!!

Is most of the wood just to get better bass reposnse?

These were PWK's last project before he passed. The original intent was to create a new replacement for the Klipschorn. A "Klipschorn II" if you will. He wanted to take the Khorn back to a 2-way speaker and add some improvements he undoubtedly came up with over the years. The end result was evidently such an improvement to his ears that he decided the Khorn needed to stay and the Jubilee needed its own spot in the lineup. Realize, the "Jubilee" is actually only the bass bin and not what you will see at Bills. There are various solutions you could use for the top horn but most who have bought the Jubilees, have gone with the full blown horn setup.

I don't lack much in bass. This just got me wondering if a hydrid would put a smile on the face by using acvite crossovers and the Jubilee horn over my RF7drivers??

I'm not sure of exactly what you're asking here. I'm also not too familar with the RF's so I can't comment. I will say though that if they have direct radiators then the bass from the Jubilee will be a lot cleaner. I've stood 30' away from mine with the volume set at a rather stupidly insane level during a drum solo (Rush) and could still feel the initial impact from a drum hit.

OH, I did want to ask for somewhat of a comparison of the K horns and LaScalas against the Jubilee? Seems the Jubilee is a newer and more refined version of them??

No...you don't really want to open that can of worms. IN general, bigger is going to be better. I've owned LaScalas for 30 years, Khorns for about 3 and the Jubilees for about 3 (sold the Khorns for the Jubilees). I don't miss anything about the Khorns. Suffice it to say that indeed, the Jubilee is a more refined version (sound wise) of the Khorn. Some don't like its looks, I'm ok with the looks. Some might not like its sound, I think it's the best thing I've ever heard. If you ever crank it up, realize that (if I recall correctly) has 1/3'rd the distortion levels of the Khorn. Turned around, that means that when you're cranking things, the Khorn has 3 times as much distortion. You can play these things quiet or loud and they will be very clean in the meantime.

Then along, comes the MWM's with the K402 on top.... much like Papa bear, Mama bear and Baby bear.

[Coytee]

Side comment... I once had a pair of industrial Heresy's. I removed my top horn, put the Heresy's on top. Using my active crossover, I split the signal at 80hz and fed 80hz DOWN, to the Jubilee bass bin and fed the 80hz up to the Heresy, letting its passive take care of the rest.

Talk about a Heresy on steroids!!

You should take one of your RF's over to Bills....

pardon the dust [:$]

[Islander]

If someone didn't know the size of the Jubilee bass bin, they'd think that Heresy was a desktop speaker!

[Daddy Dee]

You've gotten some excellent advice here. Especially taking one of your RF's over to Bill's to hear one on his amps. You may decide you're just happy to stick with them.

The Jubilee bass units are made of wood because they are folded horns. Don't know of another way to make those turns. They are something bigger than a Khorn.

My take on sound relative to Khorns or La Scalas is that they have that Heritage sound, such that other heritage speakers, even Heresy would work for surrounds and such. The Jubilee sound is Heritage kicked up a notch, a real substantial notch. The sound is akin to a Khorn, but with more authority. They load the room a bit differently, I think.

I would stay away from any sort of diy hybrid. These things are engineered so precisely after tons of testing and fine tuning. It would be quite unlikely, IMO, to just hit on a satisfactory product in such an effort. Also, the RF bass has a different reference sound that Heritage bass. I'm not sure how swapping HF sections would work well at all.

[Coytee]

The sound is akin to a Khorn, but with more authority. They load the room a bit differently, I think.

Kind of like Mike Tyson punching you in the face, verses my wife slapping you. He will knock your teeth out...SHE will knock your block off!

[^o)]

[Deang]

I'm using a Denon 3808ci receiver and biamping into some Definitive bp7001sc towers -- and I don't have any harshness at all.

Did I do your crossovers? If not, what did you do to them.

Are you bridging the Rotel?

EDIT: thought I saw that you had two Rotels -- just noticed you only have one. Forget the bridging question.

[mark1101]

Hey Dean,

I have a mint 10/10 Denon PMA-2000 here if you want it? [

]

[Fast1]

Dean, we talked some time ago and I didthe mods on my own per for recommendations. I added all Audio Cap thetas. There was an obvious change in sound but I probably should have tried with just the caps before adding the resistor tweak to see the difference.

The Rotel is not bridged because it is recommended to stat at 6-8ohm nominal and that would pull me down to 4ohm nominal. Not sure if the low imedance spikes from the 7s would cause issues. Certainly willing to try if you think that could help me.

I am about ready to open that Rotel and see if there are some things that can be changed out to better it's performance. In talking with Rotel, they ID'd a couple things that might help. Worst case, I get to solder the old stuff back on.

Possibly upgrade the little, worthless Denon??? I have heard of people changing out transistors and such to improve sound. Just cannot see where a 3800 series would blow me down compared to a 2800 but I have heard there were audible differences.

The problems I face is something with distorted guitar or maybe the singing of Rascal Flats. Ear piercing at times and I always turn it at the the start of songs, then drop it drastically at certain times to avoid ear bleed.

Thoughts?

By the way, where is your Klipsch line up Dean?

[Deang]

Dean, we talked some time ago and I didthe mods on my own per for recommendations. I added all Audio Cap thetas. There was an obvious change in sound but I probably should have tried with just the caps before adding the resistor tweak to see the difference.

Sounds better with the resistor mod, leave them alone.

The Rotel is not bridged because it is recommended to stat at 6-8ohm nominal and that would pull me down to 4ohm nominal. Not sure if the low imedance spikes from the 7s would cause issues. Certainly willing to try if you think that could help me.

Bridging turns a two channel amp into a "mono" amp, so you would need two Rotels. Most solid state amps that have bridging capability sound kind of rough bridged. I thought if you were bridging -- it might be a contributing factor in the harshness you're hearing.

I am about ready to open that Rotel and see if there are some things that can be changed out to better it's performance. In talking with Rotel, they ID'd a couple things that might help. Worst case, I get to solder the old stuff back on.

Only if you know what you're doing.

Possibly upgrade the little, worthless Denon??? I have heard of people changing out transistors and such to improve sound. Just cannot see where a 3800 series would blow me down compared to a 2800 but I have heard there were audible differences.

Since you already have a nice amp, you should probably replace the Denon with a nice processor. Check out Emotiva. I only said what I said because Mark suggested that maybe either your Denon preamp section or the Rotel was responsible for the harshness. I don't have any experience with the 2800, but the front end section of my 3808ci sounds excellent.

The problems I face is something with distorted guitar or maybe the singing of Rascal Flats. Ear piercing at times and I always turn it at the the start of songs, then drop it drastically at certain times to avoid ear bleed.

The RF-7 is fairly unforgiving with mediocre and poor source material. Also, if you listen kind of loud, the room itself can cause some problems for you.

By the way, where is your Klipsch line up Dean?

No Klipsch in the house. 2-channel listening is done in semi-nearfield with a Portal Panache integrated, a Music Hall cd25.2, and some homebrew loudspeakers using Radian coaxials. I also use the same loudspeaker for my center channel in my HT set up.

[Deang]

Hey Dean,

I have a mint 10/10 Denon PMA-2000 here if you want it?

Ever notice how stuff that sounds good on other speakers sounds like crap with horns. Of course it never has to do with the horns -- it's all that "harsh" equipment!

[Marvel]

Ever notice how stuff that sounds good on other speakers sounds like crap with horns. Of course it never has to do with the horns -- it's all that "harsh" equipment!

[8-)]

I am mostly leaving my gear alone, now. I don't want to hear anything else that will cause me to spend money. What I have matches up pretty well, and I could live with it from now on. I have too many other things to spend money on (like getting my gf over here to the U.S.)

Bruce

[mikebse2a3]

Ever notice how stuff that sounds good on other speakers sounds like crap with horns. Of course it never has to do with the horns -- it's all that "harsh" equipment!

Yep! crappie horns, crappie equipment, crappie recordings(monitered on crappie loudspeakers/equipment, crappie studio acoustics, tailored sound to play back on crappie equipment in crappie enviroments and just plain crappie taste).

Plenty of crap to go around!

mike tn[]

[Deang]

Touche'

[Chris A]

My questions are...Can these work in an HT setup and if so, what would complement them for rears or CCs? these speakers look huge!

See my profile. I'm running a 5.0, although I've got a couple of homemade subs on the way. This configuration is really nice for 2-channel, movies, and multi-channel DVD-As and SACDs.

...Oh, I did want to ask for somewhat of a comparison of the Khorns and LaScalas against the Jubilee? Seems the Jubilee is a newer and more refined version of them?

I have a pair of Khorn clones (good ones) and the Jubs just blow them away. I find myself spending probably too much time in front of the Jubs, and I've have them since Christmas 2007.

I would first think about JubScalas if cost is a strong factor (it usually is), and keep your sub(s). I would also highly recommend an ElectroVoice Dx38 active crossover + Crown D-45s or -75s over Crown XTi's.

Chris

[Q-Man]

Since you say that there really isn't a correct set of plans for the Jubilee, what does Klipsch sell the bass horn for?

It might be time to try a pair. I'm very happy with the tops that I use on my 3 pairs of Klipschorns. The Altec 290-16K drivers mated to the Altec 311-90 horns and the JBL 2404H tweeter. I would first try them with the Jubille. It's a waste to have 6 Klipschorn tops and networks taking up space in the closet. I could put the 3 pairs of Klipschorns back together and sell them.

I could buy a single Jubilee and take it apart and do a little reverse engineering, then build 6 of them. Or, maybe Klipsch will cut me a deal if I buy 6 of them.

[Chris A]

Since you say that there really isn't a correct set of plans for the Jubilee, what does Klipsch sell the bass horn for?

I don't know how much they are since I bought a full pair, but I'd put it in the $2.5K/bin range. When you consider the amount of work that goes into these relative to some other mfger's subwoofers that I've seen at this price point, you'll see that this is a pretty good deal. You could use your Khorn lf bins with K402/K69A tops and an active or passive crossovers--several people have built their own passives here - DeanG and rigma come to mind presently, but there are others.

The reason why I make the above points is that I believe the real difference is the hf Jub section over the Khorns, but that's just my opinion...the Jub bass bin is also better (IMHO) than the Khorn, but I would think that the difference is not as noticeable relative to the hf horn/driver.

Chris A.