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DYI JUBILEE THOUGHTS. MAYBE A HYBRID??


Fast1

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i have both the khorns and my custom built jubs. my jubs are def better than my khorns. actually i sold my custom built jubs to a guy in chicago. you guys may contact him if you want and ask him how they look and how they sound. my thread is the jubs thread in updates and mods. but yes you can build jubs and they sound very good.

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One thing I'd like to try is biamping, using the same amplifier for the low and high, maybe class T amps.


People often think that they don't need as much power for the tweeter when bi-amping, but with the Jubilee's low crossover point around 500Hz, the tweeter is also doing midrange duty, so its power needs aren't that much different from those of the woofer. The woofer is covering the bottom 5 octaves, while the tweeter is covering the top 5 octaves of the audioband.

There was a link to a site about bi-amping posted recently, with the bass/treble proportions shown in a chart, indicating how the crossover point affected them. The 500Hz crossover would call for 60% of the amp power for the woofers and 40% for the tweeters, so matching amps make good sense. That would also explain the cuts in the K402 settings, to make it match up with the Jubilee bass bin's output.

I'd suggest that a pair of Class T amps might not be of good enough quality to show the full potential of the Jubilees. Premium speakers deserve premium amps.
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I'd suggest that a pair of Class T amps might not be of good enough quality to show the full potential of the Jubilees. Premium speakers deserve premium amps.

Yeah, I hear ya.

Not sure I agree with the 60/40 split at 500Hz though. Have you ever unplugged your bass bin and just listened to the 402 and vice versa? The amount of musical information coming out of the bass bin seems to be 10 times that of the top horn. Now, if it's a quality issue, and more power is needed for the top end to have headroom, etc... then I could see that.

Greg

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No need to unplug, just push the mute buttons on the Dx for channels 1 & 3, then try 2 & 4. My system's off right now, since I could hardly hear it over the ongoing construction here, but I'll try it later.

As for that bi-amp info, here's the site and one of the charts. I don't know the calculations used to get these figures, but it looks plausible to me.

http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm :

X-over Frequency (Hz) Power to Bass (%) Power to Mid+High (%)
250 40 60
350 50 50
500 60 40
1,200 65 35
3,000 85 15
5,000 90 10
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No need to unplug, just push the mute buttons on the Dx for channels 1 & 3, then try 2 & 4.

Done that when playing around with the MWM's, it is amazing how BAD each section sounds [+o(] BUT together it's great ! [:P] Listening to each section separately HI Hi / Low Low you would think there is a big hole in the middle until you release the mute button, the Dx is an amazing crossover, so much versatility.

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Hey Qman, do you have pics of your HF tops and the cabinet you've got them mounted in? One of the things that has always bothered me about those Altec designs is how the horn mounts to the baffle.

I'll take some new pictures and post them for you.

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Have you ever unplugged your bass bin and just listened to the 402 and vice versa?

As has been said...what I found so interesting about doing that (via using the defeat buttons on my Dx) is just how sucky both parts sound on their own. Had I heard either half on its own I would have NEVER felt it could be part of a nice sounding system.

I still get impressed when I cut them out to listen to a single horn. This also had me wondering.... for someone like Roy who's been around horns for a few weeks, can he hear two different single horns and without the rest of the spectrum, know by ear that one is a decent sounding horn relative to the other.

Does that make sense?

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I still get impressed when I cut them out to listen to a single horn. This also had me wondering.... for someone like Roy who's been around horns for a few weeks, can he hear two different single horns and without the rest of the spectrum, know by ear that one is a decent sounding horn relative to the other.

Does that make sense?


I should think Roy could tell one horn from another blindfolded and explain what the differences are. After all, he's drawn up the shapes of several of the horns, then worked with them to get the sound as close to ideal as he can manage. It's what he does, and does well.
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Have you ever unplugged your bass bin and just listened to the 402 and vice versa?

As has been said...what I found so interesting about doing that (via using the defeat buttons on my Dx) is just how sucky both parts sound on their own. Had I heard either half on its own I would have NEVER felt it could be part of a nice sounding system.

I still get impressed when I cut them out to listen to a single horn. This also had me wondering.... for someone like Roy who's been around horns for a few weeks, can he hear two different single horns and without the rest of the spectrum, know by ear that one is a decent sounding horn relative to the other.

Does that make sense?

It is amazing!

I used to keep one room set up with a stock Klipschorn in one corner to use as my reference speaker. I would A/B other bass horns, midrange horns and drivers againts it.

I also used to listen to the midrange horns and drivers alone to try to narrow down what I was hearing. I would call my kids into the room when I wanted another opinion. When I singled out a driver or horn they would hate it and tell me how crappy they sounded.

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Something I would concider doing with the 3 way Jubilee with that 402 horn

Just a side comment.... the main reason Klipsch sells the Jubilee as a 3-way is to maximize its output for cinema/stage type use. I can only ask that you trust me when I tell you that the Jubilee in the 2-way format is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY enough for any residential use. Especially if you want to keep your hearing intact.

In my opinion, one benefit of staying 2-way is you drop a crossover point and when all this engineering comes together, what you find (or what I found to be more specific), My Khorns needed a bit of room for the sound to come together as a singular wave front (I also had the 2404 tweet and Al K's extreme slope crossovers) At 30' away, my Khorns were liquidity personified but when I was in the same room with them (open floor plan) I could discern differences among the drivers.

With the Jubilees being 2-way, using some signal alignment on the drivers, my Jubilees sound as good in the room as they do 30' away. Put differently, they sound better in the room than my Khorns did in the same room.

True, true, true.

I agree with everything that you have to say. I also know the the Jubilee bass horn was designed to go higher just for that reason.

The Jubilee bass horn may be different, but I never heard one that sounded as good as a midrange horn upwards of 350 Hz. That is the reason I want a to use my top hat. I'm going to first try crossing over at 400 Hz.

Tell me that I'm not an old school Klipschorn guy.

I have a combined kitchen and family room now. The family room is 17 x 30 with a 42" high bar top wall between it and the 17 x 20 kitchen. I always notice how good the Klipschorns sound from 30 to 50 feet away.

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I always notice how good the Klipschorns sound from 30 to 50 feet away.

Then I would guarantee you a nice dinner at a place of your choosing that if you swapped your Khorns with "stock" Jubilees (2-way using Dx38 with Roy's paramaters) that you would immediately notice your new sound being as sweet up close as it is at this same distance.

It really took me a little while of tossing this over in my head before I think I finally understood what was going on (sound melding together sooner/quicker because of 2-way with addition of signal alignment) Until that light bulb went off, I was perplexed. I was viewing it from the perspective of " Why don't the Jubilees sound twice as good (like my Khorns) when I get this distance from them"

When in fact, I should have been looking at it from the other perspective of "why didn't my Khorns sound as good when I was closer to them like the Jubilees do"

Though I can be slow .................................[sn] I can usually get something if I mull it over long enough!

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Hey Qman, do you have pics of your HF tops and the cabinet you've got them mounted in? One of the things that has always bothered me about those Altec designs is how the horn mounts to the baffle.

This is the best that I can do. My room is dark, I brought in some extra lighting to help, but now you can see that I should have done some dusting first. I included a few pics of the center channel, so you can see the 290 driver and the horn not in an inclosure. The horn inclosure isn't mounted on a flat surrface ( baffle) like Altec did with it's smaller horns that they used for their home speaker systems. This horn was mainly used in auditoriums, stadiums, and concert halls. I should do something to make the tweeter look better, but It's my room and hardly anyone but me uses it. I'm also always changing things, it's just been a while. The Jub bass horns may make me change again.

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http://i31.tinypic.com/99f7rm.jpg

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Wow Q-man you should never make fun of people with the K402 horns with all that hardware you have going on in those pic's. WinkYes

I hope that you really don't think that I'm making fun of you with the K402 horn. I'm just interested in the bass horn at this time. If I din't have my tops, I would be going with the K402.

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