Home Theater Vintage/Modern Confusion

[Forte2me]

I am stuck between wanting to stay with vintage gear and yet feeling like I am missing out because I don't have 5.1 / 7.1 capability.

Here's where I am. Forte ll's as mains (love them), KV2 as center channel (weak link, but Academy on the way next week), JBL in-walls for rear surrounds. I run a Denon PRA -1500 preamp and a Denon POA - 2400 amp (200 wpc rms). I use an Onkyo ES600PRO surround processor, which is (gasp!) Dolby Pro-Logic and has its own 50 wpc amp for the center channel and 20wpc amp for the rears. This unit runs through the tape mon circuit of my preamp, so I only engage it when I am watching movies. I listen to all my music through straight up 2 channel without activating the processor. I am still using a (gasp again!) 32" tube TV, but that will probably change today as I think I am going to buy the Samsung 600 series 55" LCD 1080p 120hz that Best Buy has on sale here through today at $1899. My setup actually sounds great, but remember Pro-Logic only sends a mono signal split between the two rear surrounds. I don't use a Sub. Well, c'mon guys - with two 15" passives and two 12" actives in the room, who needs one? You Forte ll guys all know what I mean, the rest of you, well, should listen to a buddy's Forte ll's and you'll understand! I am also thinking about getting a blu-ray DVD to take advantage of what the flatscreen has to offer.

So, serious upgrades in the works for center channel, TV, and DVD signal. However, now the quandary begins. The TV/Blu-ray setup is going to set me back for quite awhile. Is there a unit out there in the used market that I could utilize in place of my Onkyo processor that would provide the same function for me (including onboard amps to power the center and rear speakers) and allow me to upgrade to 5.1? I don't know how to even begin bringing an HDMI or digital/optical cable signal into the vintage equipment arena. Am I forced to switch out this preamp that I love and go to one of the pre-pro setups? And then more amps? And if I am, is there something on the used market that anyone would recommend that won't break the bank?

There is alot of wisdom and experience on this site. I'd love to hear any input you guys have.

[Bill H.]

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Vizio 42" Class Eco 1080p LCD HDTV
$598
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[dougdrake]

Yes, Forte's do dig deep on the bass, but keep a subwoofer on your Christmas list - you CAN tell the difference. I have an older SVS sub that goes sub-20hz that picks up where my Forte's left off.

I'm a fan of Onkyo's current lineup - extreme value for the money, IMO. Look at the TX-SR706 - it's probably got enough power to handle whatever you can't plug in to your existing amps (which I'm not familiar with), and it has pre-amp outs. So you can use it as a pre-amp for the channels you have outboard amps for, and as an amp for the channels you don't have amps for. And you can pick it up for a price that won't break the bank.

As for the TeeVee - I also have a 6xx series Samsung and Vizio does not hold a candle to it - yes, there is a price difference but on a 55" screen I believe you will see the PQ difference as well.

[wuzzzer]

While you won't have to get rid of your current pre-amps, if you want to make any upgrades to your setup you'll want to.

Best thing to do would be to find a receiver in your price range that has the features you want and also has pre-amp outputs. You'll still be able to use your Denon POA-2400 for your front mains and the receiver will power your center and surround speakers.

[psg]

Spend $250 on a refurb harnman kardon avr-254 from Harmon Audio on eba, and you will be up and running with much better surround and be Blu ray ready.

As for the sub? No, it isn't the same as bass from your Forte IIs. You can't tell now because you are only decoding pro logic from stereo and that doesn't have an LFE track. Adding a sub has probably had the most significant impact on my system for HT, and I only have a Hsu STF-3.

If you downgraded to the much-more-common size of 52-inch LCD, you would likely have enough money for both the receiver and a 12-inch sub from eD.

[Forte2me]

Thanks for the input so far. I understand the concept of moving to an A/V receiver and then linking my Denon POA 2400 amp to it to run my Forte ll's, but to go that route, since the A/V receiver would then become my preamp when listening to 2 channel audio, am I not losing audio quality when compared to what I have now? That's my big hangup on this (aside of cost, since I did buy the 55 inch 640 series Samsung LCD over the weekend). I agree that in movie mode that setup would rock, but I have concerns on what happens in 2 channel audio mode.

I am probably 50% movies and 50% 2 channel audio on my system. In my current setup, I only activate the Onkyo Pro Logic decoder/amp setup when I am watching a movie, and I like that aspect of it. To be clear, the Onkyo ES600 is not a receiver. In 2 channel audio I only run my Denon preamp, my Denon amp, and my Forte ll's. That's why I was wondering if there was something comparable to my Onkyo processor out there would handle the digital 5.1/7.1 signal but include onboard amps for the center and rear surrounds.

If I am all wet and this is not doable then tell me so. But if the only way to get the better movie experience is to part with my preamp and go with an A/V receiver and then run it as a preamp in 2 channel audio, will I be happy with what I will hear in 2 channel audio?

How do you guys get around this on a budget? Thanks.

[psg]

If I am all wet and this is not doable then tell me so. But if the only way to get the better movie experience is to part with my preamp and go with an A/V receiver and then run it as a preamp in 2 channel audio, will I be happy with what I will hear in 2 channel audio?

How do you guys get around this on a budget? Thanks.

"Pass-through" is what you want and is only available on expensive processors, not on a budget.

Honestly, I can hear the difference between what comes out of my avr and what comes out of a stereo preamp, so i am quite satisfied using an AVR for stereo music and using whatever audio-direct mode it has to disableany digital processing. The hk 254 i mentionned has such a feature.

[Forte2me]

Honestly, I can hear the difference between what comes out of my avr and what comes out of a stereo preamp, so i am quite satisfied using an AVR for stereo music and using whatever audio-direct mode it has to disableany digital processing. The hk 254 i mentionned has such a feature.

So you do hear a difference between them? Did you mean to say you can't hear the difference when going between the two - or you can (as written above) and that's why you use the HK mentioned and then use audio direct for your 2 channel? I guess my follow up would be if it is the latter, have you ever done an A/B comparison using the HK a/v with audio direct mode vs. a preamp to see if there is a difference in sound quality?

[psg]

Sorry... Just noticed the typo myself...

I cannot hear it. I used to have a pre-amp and amp, before the HT rig, and couldn't tell the difference when I changed. My receiver has pre-outs and I can't tell either between the receiver's amp section and using external amps.

Spending thousands on a pre-amps isn't worth it for me.

[Forte2me]

Thanks for the input Peter. Anybody else? Is everyone running A/V receivers?

[Islander]

I'd guess that at least half the members are using AV receivers. Harman Kardon, Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, all have their fans.

[Forte2me]

For those of you who are not using AV receivers in your HT setups, anyone using older equipment? How are you handling the 5.1 decode? Thanks.

[Forte2me]

If I go the receiver / outboard amp for my mains

route, and to save some money pick up a used Denon

3805/7 or similar for the AV receiver, how do I

get around the lack of HDMI inputs to process the

HD signal (I know the newer series Denons have

HDMI ins/outs, but don't believe the 3805/7's do)?

I currently use a Toshiba 1080i DVD

player, which I have hooked up with HDMI

from the DVD player directly to the TV, and analog audio

via RCAs out from the DVD player to my Denon

preamp. At some point I would like to go to Blu-Ray.

Does the component video out option from the DVD

and into the receiver option carry the same

quality video signal as HDMI? And then would I

have to use the same component video cables from

the receiver out to the TV? If that handles the

video, how do you carry the 5.1 digital audio feed

from the DVD to the receiver? Is the digital coax

out or optical out the same quality as HDMI?

If not, am I better of spending more and getting a

newer Denon 2808/9 that handles HDMI

ins and outs? Money's pretty tight for awhile

after the TV purchase...

[oldtimer]

As stated earlier for your best 2 channel experience find a component that offers a direct source pass through. I think multi-channel audio from the optical or coax will not suffer in quality. Remember that when you use such audio digital outs that you are using the dac from the input component. If the source component has a better dac then you would prefer to use the multi-channel analog outs into your pre-amp. Therefore you would want a pre-amp (or avr) that has that feature if the source component has that option. The hdmi video signal can be fed directly into your display. You can see there are lots of ways to skin this cat.

After all that my question is what is your actual budget and you will then get more specific answers from the wise folks on the forum.

[KingJames]

See following post...

[KingJames]

You might have a look at the Onkyo TX-SR607 or 606. I've owned both and been extremely happy with them. They are very reasonably priced, and will take care of all your video needs now and long into the future. I just purchased the TX-SR607 and it is fantastic. Really simplifies hooking things up. Just run all your HDMI sources into the receiver, and then one HDMI cable from the receiver to the tv is all you need. It will run beautiful 1080p picture and decode all the latest HD audio tracks to give you great 5.1/7.1 sound. The 607 right now is only running about $400 and I think you could get the 606 for about $300. I'm actually in the process of selling mine now. I believe you could just hook up your preamps to this quite easily, but don't quote me on it. Hope this helps and doesn't just add clutter to the though process... haha I definitely know how that goes.

[oldtimer]

Is anyone in the position of being able to run an audio source completely different from their video's audio when they have the video first run into a pre or avr and then out to the display? The way I have mine connected right now (through the pre to the display does not allow me to listen to tunes and watch a tv feed (i always called it fish-tanking) unless my audio source is analog. I can do it with vinyl, but not with cd since I am using a digital connection. Is this common? The answer is either to make an analog cd connection, or direct video connections into the display. But it is an unanticipated outcome of what I thought would be more convenience and also to gain access to the pre-amps on screen menu. The menu is not absolutely necessary this way but much easier to use. These are some issues not immediately obvious when dealing with a combination stereo and multi-channel set up.