artto Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Yes, and then they release it on CD. SHEESH. I bet my "remastered" Mobile Fidelity LPs sound better [] Why they skipped archiving these on Direct Stream Digital/SACD I'll never know (if I'm missing something please let me know). If it's not on SACD I'm not wasting my time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted September 12, 2009 Author Share Posted September 12, 2009 Again, I'm confused. The mono guy seems to think that a pop song should essentially be garbled in order for it to have impact. "There were no quietpassages in songs -- technology rendered everything equally loud and urgent,every second. If you were 14, this was exciting." But what if his pipe smoking, smoking jacket, martini swilling suburban dad had a pair of 1965 Klipschorns tucked away in the corners. I'm betting those original monos would still sound exciting. Probably have much better dynamic range than the cd reissues that replaced them, and have a fantastic soundstage to boot. The later Beatles albums, were, aside from radio, being heard mostly on pretty decent mass market systems on college campuses everywhere. In other words, by that time, recording quality for even pop music was a serious consideration for any sound engineer. Pop music albums were being engineered to standards as rigid as those employed by the jazz and classical camps of such recoding houses as Columbia, RCA, Verve and Blue Note. OT. OK I'm sure you already know this. The one great Stones album, (I'll write it in a mix of furrin languages just to present you with an intellectual challenge) is: "Sympatique pour la Diablos " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 True thebes, but Some Girls is right up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Yes, and then they release it on CD. SHEESH. I bet my "remastered" Mobile Fidelity LPs sound better Why they skipped archiving these on Direct Stream Digital/SACD I'll never know (if I'm missing something please let me know). If it's not on SACD I'm not wasting my time. The problem is a very relative few have sacd and the format is being pretty much ignored these days. We are back to cd or vinyl. Maybe dvd-audio? I'll be the first to admit I'm not an expert but i can tell which way the wind blows most days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 13, 2009 Moderators Share Posted September 13, 2009 OT. OK I'm sure you already know this. The one great Stones album, (I'll write it in a mix of furrin languages just to present you with an intellectual challenge) is: "Sympatique pour la Diablos " Only one? Are you kidding me? Thebes, Make some tea, sit back and listen to: Exil sur la rue Principale Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share Posted September 13, 2009 OT. OK I'm sure you already know this. The one great Stones album, (I'll write it in a mix of furrin languages just to present you with an intellectual challenge) is: "Sympatique pour la Diablos " Only one? Are you kidding me? Thebes, Make some tea, sit back and listen to: Exil sur la rue Principale Travis Zoot alors! I had forgotten that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 15, 2009 Moderators Share Posted September 15, 2009 You have managed to create another thread with banter build right in. I think on the Steve Hoffman forum they are on Stereo vs. Mono Part 32, they go to a new part after they reach 500 posts on each thread. However, I really like this thread, a very good opportnity to try and get some facts about these mixes in here, on both these latest CD issues, and the vinyl issues, including the Mofi's. The issue is really quite complex, because it is not just a Mono vs. Stereo thing, it is also a U.K vs Capitol on top of mono vs. stereo. It is further complicated by some "stereo" songs being "Duophonic" which is Capitol's fake stereo. I would say that the Mono's would be the one to get, if you had to chose one, because included several that are issued in Mono for the very first time. Whereas, the stereo issues do not contain anything completly new. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 15, 2009 Moderators Share Posted September 15, 2009 Back on topic thebes. The early original monos are collectible so the current marketeers play into that by creating a new mono collectible. It's simple baby boomer crass. People who want to listen will more than likely get the stereo version. Mono on a cd? Six of the mono's have never been available on CD before this set. They would want the mono because of the style of "stereo" back then doesn't fit with their ears, or the fact that stereo was secondary for George Martin, up to even the White Album, everything was recorded with Mono as the primary, and stereo was only secondary. In some cases, the "stereo" is rechanneled fake stereo. As far as the stereo set, that is a whole 'nother can of worms because when the first CD stereo "remaster" issues came out they included mono mixes in error. Kind of a lousy deal, because of their error you have to get this "new and improved" remastered set to be sure that you have the right mixes that you prefer. I was never much of a Beatles fan, only likeing a few songs, but collecting the vinyl because of the collectibility. I always prefered the Stones and the Who, and that is probably because I got the chance to see them perform and so I could identify with them more. I must say, I'm really enjoying these sets. Hearing things I never heard before, etc. I have not even got to the mono's yet. Travis Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted September 15, 2009 Moderators Share Posted September 15, 2009 I don't know, but to me there is a lot of self-serving nonsense being put out by the recording engineers. But I'm probably missing the point of why I started this thread and that is stereo vs mono. I understand the attraction of mono for old jazz Blue Notes and such, after all they were not mastered with AM radio play in mind. For pop music, though? Would there really be a large group of people who really want these songs in mono? There is an important distinction between recording and mixing/mastering. They were indeed recorded with mono in mind, and stereo was only given a secondary consideration. The mixing and mastering would be specific for mono as well as stereo. In the UK, and the US, stereo was a sliver of the market, and they were gearing up for mass marketing. As has been mentioned, PPM was recorded in ONE day. Two track, vocals on one, instruments on another. This was actually higher tech at the time, instead of all on one track, it was on two. With one track tape being sent for mastering, if the instruments drowned out the vocals there was nothing mastering was going to do to really help. Recording PPM and WTB the two tracks were mainly for mono, so that mixing and mastering could reach the right balance of vocals and instruments. For stereo they just ran vocals out of left channel and everything else out of the right. Ever wonder by those early 60's stereo amps, Mac esp. had a multi selector swittch, L to RL, R to LR, Stereo reverse, etc.? If you prefer your vocals out of the right it was very easy to do, insturmental only, vocals only, etc. Things are complicated further because in addition to recordinng for mono as primary, there was different mixing and mastering for the U.S. issues, resulting in major differences between the releases. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 geez Thebes I thought you were gonna pick Let It Bleed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 Well I went over and checked out this Steve Hoffman guy, and do you know he's a tv? I actually saw the word Ipod there. Right out in the open and everything, with no shame at all, so I fled in a hurry. Seriously, I really do appreciate you taking the time to lay out the various reasons for considering mono over stereo in the instance of the Beatles discography. I had completly forgotten about pseudo stereo, and the way some labels and engineers would dump all vocals into one channel, and everything else in t the other. Steve, about "Let it Bleed'! The title song is sappy, oh wait a minute, that's the Beatles "Let it Be". I will grant you "Midnight Rambler" is a truly awesome blues song. If only a real blues band had recorded it. Come to think of it, Eric Burdon would have killed that song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 I'm gonna walk, before they make me run!.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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