askbob1 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 I finally auditioned the JL F113 with music that I'm familiar with, and in a pretty decent room. All I can say is, WHAT A BIG LETDOWN!! I am not sure how these subs are touted as being at the top of the pack, but I was VERY un-impressed! Yes, it was properly set up and calibrated. I have spent a lot of time listening to different subs, including the rsw-15, rw-12d, avs mfw-15, sub-12, and a few others, and they are without a doubt much better than the JL. Both in SQ and probably even or slightly better on output. For comparison's sake, there was another sub in the room made by BG which is an isobaric set-up. A design not used much anymore. It has two 10" drivers with a 500 watt rms amp. It was very impressive in output, depth, and tightness. Needless to say, it was leaps and bounds above the JL. I am going to have it in my set-up to audition it for awhile. Here is the link to it: http://bgcorp.com/PDFs/R-210i-literature.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNRabbit Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Wow; you must be difficult to please.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askbob1 Posted September 26, 2009 Author Share Posted September 26, 2009 Wow; you must be difficult to please.... You care to elaborate on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNRabbit Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 All the JL Audio subs I've ever heard were terrific. VERY musical & accurate, authoritative, dig deep, etc.....are you sure there wasn't an anomoly with the setup? I went to that link but it was unclear what BG is; Bolenger-Graebner (sp?)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 If you can find a local Installer, or dealer. Check out the Proficient PS 10 or PS 12. Excellent sub with either Music or Movies.............. I have the Sub 10 and for 395.00 I am amazed with this Sub. http://www.proficientaudio.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 That just sucks, sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltmanEars Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 I finally auditioned the JL F113 with music that I'm familiar with, and in a pretty decent room. All I can say is, WHAT A BIG LETDOWN!! I am not sure how these subs are touted as being at the top of the pack, but I was VERY un-impressed! Yes, it was properly set up and calibrated. I have spent a lot of time listening to different subs, including the rsw-15, rw-12d, avs mfw-15, sub-12, and a few others, and they are without a doubt much better than the JL. Both in SQ and probably even or slightly better on output. For comparison's sake, there was another sub in the room made by BG which is an isobaric set-up. A design not used much anymore. It has two 10" drivers with a 500 watt rms amp. It was very impressive in output, depth, and tightness. Needless to say, it was leaps and bounds above the JL. I am going to have it in my set-up to audition it for awhile. Here is the link to it: http://bgcorp.com/PDFs/R-210i-literature.pdf You may have this reaction because this is a very overated piece of kit. Home theatre has confused the market and brought about the wide acceptibility of so so subs. One of the subs in my collection is isobaric and it sounds great but not quite loud enough for movies. My sub uses the large KEF oval driver in an isobaric loading. On the other hand, the larger Wilson subs are really very fun. Two should satisfy almost anyone and you arent talking ridiculous money either...BTW some of the older Wilson's require a crossover and amp. Old used McIntosh superamps make some of the best woofer amps going... Finally the best solution is to hire a competent engineer to design a "built in" subwoofer system for your room...This is often the most cost efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 I heard an F113 and was impressed.......but the cost couldn't be justified IMHO. I'll hang on to my SVS PB-12 Ultra/2. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askbob1 Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 You are right TNrabbit, I am hard to please! [] I suppose the JL sub was such a letdown due to the price of the sub versus actual performance against other subs that I have heard first hand. I think the main thing that I did not like SQ-wise was the sealed design. I suppose I am a little biased towards a good ported design or similar, so I must confess that... don't hold that one against me! Ported sounds better to my ear. The JL, in my opinion, sounded very flat and thin. For instance, the kickdrum on Steely Dans 2AN dvd, was flat and did not give the same bottom end impact that I've heard from the other subs I have listed above. Output was there, it just sounded like an over-exursion of the cone trying to keep up. This was at low to moderate volume levels. We even went back and re-calibrated with audessey and without it. No difference. With my experience and the dealers, I don't think there was anything that was not set up properly. I am not sure what BG stands for. The dealer I visited has been carrying their line for 7 years. They are mainly into planar designed speakers, but have a few subs out as well. The room I was in with the subs had several of their LCR speakers. They sounded very good, but very laid back compared to klipsch. The one sub I want to hear, but haven't yet is the RT-12d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNRabbit Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I have the RF-12d which I am currently using to supplement the lowest notes in a 2 channel system. I've been very happy with it, but would ultimately like an Infinite Baffle setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 "I think the main thing that I did not like SQ-wise was the sealed design. I suppose I am a little biased towards a good ported design or similar, so I must confess that... don't hold that one against me! " [<)] SQ wise the sealed is bad! [] You gave yourself away. BIG TIME...in overtime. A very good sealed design(the JL Audio f113 is one) is capable of stellar SQ as far as you do not push the sub into the last trenches(compression sets in...and the gremlins do the dirty work).Here any design pushed near and past its optimum operating limits will start to deteriorate. You want to hear clean,pristine...try the larger Genelec mains and two of the four driver Genelec subs...you will hear as clean as it gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Although you can get a much more accurate reproduction from a sealed design, I understand what you're talking about. A sealed sub is less able to hide it's capabilities when push to its limits. It takes a lot more headroom to produce the deepest of frequencies at high volumes with a sealed design than does its ported cousin you're used to. That being said, seeing as I'm not a gigantic music buff...personally I would keep my big ported daddy, too. P.S. If I would audition it with no idea of its price point I'm sure I'd be impressed. Soon after the sticker shock I'd giggle a little and walk away. [Edit] I was thinking we were talking about the Gotham. The Fathom isn't too terribly priced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 CAS , Not a music buff ! [] Ok you have your immitation fake explosions in Rambo 5, you want more realism? Go buy a few hand grenades and toss them at your subs. [] The explosions will be more bloody and have true power. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburnwilly Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 CAS , Not a music buff ! Ok you have your immitation fake explosions in Rambo 5, you want more realism? Go buy a few hand grenades and toss them at your subs. The explosions will be more bloody and have true power. You can buy handgrenades in Canada ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 CAS , Not a music buff ! Ok you have your immitation fake explosions in Rambo 5, you want more realism? Go buy a few hand grenades and toss them at your subs. The explosions will be more bloody and have true power. To those who say records sound better, to those who speak to each other in person instead of through hotmail, and to those who drink plain black coffee instead of coffee flavored sugar foam...to each his own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 CAS, I will tell you WHY "records" sound "better". The myth is all in the sauce, the sauce here is a rolled off upper range and reduced peaks, a softer more "natural" sound results. Yes it does sound "better" but it is not accurate. Try listen to a drum live , it can strain your hearing. Now listen to a great DIGITAL uncompressed(as little as possible) recording, again it will be straining , now listen on the LP...ahhhh so musical ...[] It is like tubes,they round off and soften the Jell-O. Sound better no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askbob1 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 *UPDATE* The dealer where I auditioned the JL called me today and said that after the factory rep came by, they discovered the set-up mic was messed up. Apparently the mic was only allowing 150hz and up to be played. Obviously this is why I was so disappointed in the lack of performance. I'll be going in next week to give it another listen hopefully returning with a much different opinion! TheEAR, you were exactly right about the newb dealer, even though this guy has been around enough to know better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltmanEars Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 *UPDATE* The dealer where I auditioned the JL called me today and said that after the factory rep came by, they discovered the set-up mic was messed up. Apparently the mic was only allowing 150hz and up to be played. Obviously this is why I was so disappointed in the lack of performance. I'll be going in next week to give it another listen hopefully returning with a much different opinion! TheEAR, you were exactly right about the newb dealer, even though this guy has been around enough to know better! Truly awesome salesmanship --- The right way to approach this is to pack up the sub and bring it to your house for an audition. Otherwise it sounds like --- "hey we are totally incompetent sorry the demo was crap --- we will give you another opportunity to lighten your wallet...stop by " Plus in the final analysis an in store demo of a sub is useless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askbob1 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 I'm just going in to see if it's worth my time to even bring it home. He did offer to bring it and the other sub I mentioned to my house. If the JL sounds like I anticipated it would, I'll be bringing it and the BG sub back for a listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 It's been a week. Any updates? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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