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Chris A

Do you use a sub in your 2-channel?

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Vintage setup with Marantz 2252b and Forte's? Couldn't if I wanted to. No need with the two 12 inchers. Onkyo/B&K and RF-63's? Yes, only to give amp relief and utilize all of it's power.

Bill

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Vintage setup with Marantz 2252b and Forte's? Couldn't if I wanted to. No need with the two 12 inchers. Onkyo/B&K and RF-63's? Yes, only to give amp relief and utilize all of it's power.

Bill

Hi Bill,

Just wondering why you couldn't add a sub to the 2252B?

Rocko

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Just wondering why you couldn't add a sub to the 2252B?

Rocko81,

I am not 100% certain of that. I am under the impression you need a receiver/preamp that has a low freq./sub preout to run to the subwoofer. Vintage Marantz receivers did not come equipped with any. I am not in any way an expert. If you know how to do it, fill me in.

Thanks,

Bill

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Just wondering why you couldn't add a sub to the 2252B?

Rocko81,

I am not 100% certain of that. I am under the impression you need a receiver/preamp that has a low freq./sub preout to run to the subwoofer. Vintage Marantz receivers did not come equipped with any. I am not in any way an expert. If you know how to do it, fill me in.

Thanks,

Bill

I love my 2252B as well, pre-out's would make it easier but your right the Marantz does not have them. On the back of the sub you should be able to run your speaker wire into the sub then your sub out to the Marantz with speaker wire as well. I think Klipsch has it listed as a "high level in and high level out" on my Sub-12.

Rocko

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On the back of the sub you should be able to run your speaker wire into the sub then your sub out to the Marantz with speaker wire as well. I think Klipsch has it listed as a "high level in and high level out" on my Sub-12.

Thanks Rocko for the tip. I have an RSW-10d and it does not have any binding posts for that application. As I mentioned before, The Forte's really rock in the low frequencies with the Marantz. As a matter of fact, I have to turn down the bass EQ on the Marantz to 1/3 max because of too much bass.

Bill

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I use subs with my setup while listening to music. Have a REL Storm III and a Klipsch RW-12d (which I got for next to nothing when Tweeter went out of business - tried to get a RT-10d as well, but no such luck).

With the power and progressive rock and metal that I listen to, I am finding having a sub really adds to the experience. Some of those tracks, especially ones with full orchestration, really seems to come alive with the addition of a good sub (and I am not just talking about that "thump-thump-thump" crap either).

I guess it is all comes down to a matter of taste. I spent all that money on those subs, so darn right I am going to use 'em! [Y]

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I'm currently running an RT-12d sub with my Carver AL-III speakers in a 2 channel setup. I'm using Sunfire components w/800 wpc into 4 ohms for EACH ribbon & EACH woofer on the speakers (actively biamped, xover at 150 hz), then supplement with the sub on the lowest notes (xover at 40 hz) about 10 dB down from standard. Sounds magical~

Posted Image

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Two 15" Velodyne subs stacked and two SVS PB-12 Ultra/2 subs stacked.....in stereo.....with four RF-7's. Sooo, "Quad" stereo I guess you could say.

Headroom up the ying yang. Big Smile

That's got to be sick I've run my rsw 15 with my velodyne 1512 and 2 10's in the RP 3's with rf 7's and it was overwhelming. Are you running everything through the subs and utilizing their crossovers? I'm not, just using the crossover controls in my onkyo to adjust what goes to the rf 7's. What have you found works best?

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Presently, it is 90 Hz--24 dB/Octave, and I don't cross the Jubs presently - they are still at "factory settings"...

jc,

I've just changed to a 60 Hz crossover last night without a Jub crossover, which seemed to improve the overall sound. I tried crossing the Jubs at 60 (high pass) but that clearly wasn't the answer. The subs just seem to extend the Jub lf bins. I have set delay on the Jubs to match the delay on the subs based on physical path length of the horns. Tapped horns are interesting in that I'm not sure how to set the delay since the "back half" of the driver area is sitting close to the horn's mouth and the "front half" is sitting at the horn's throat. Since the crossover frequency is so low (a 60 Hz full wavelength is about 18' or ~5.5m), I concluded that relative errors in phase alignment are not going to be that critical.

I'm thinking about placing the Jubs on top of the subs (i.e., the subs would lay flat on the floor), which would raise the Jubs 11" (28 cm) higher. I have to seal the subs up from leaks anyway this weekend, so moving them under the Jubs won't be that much of a problem. I can then move the Jubs back into the corners formed by the walls and allow the WAF to store her "Holiday Season" trinkets on the 11" risers instead of the Jub lf bin "shelves" (when that time comes around again).

Not sure if the rise will significantly affect K402 performance in-room. I'll certainly find out. I would hazard a guess that the real difference will be vertical coverage angle, i.e., the K402s will be looking slightly further down at the listening audience. Might be interesting.

Chris

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This is an interesting thread.



If you would have asked this question 3-4 years ago on this forum, the 2 Ch. purists would be all over you for even suggesting a sub in a 2 Ch system........or EQ or tone controls for that matter too. All that was taboo. Now it seems many folks are using subs in 2 Ch. I'm a little surprised actually.



What would not surprise me as much is the "active" guys though. If you are using active crossovers and time delaying drivers, a sub is just another driver and it makes more sense to me like that.



I'm not knocking anyone here but a few different subs I tried with my passive crossed Klipsch horn loaded speakers in my 2 Ch. systems muddied things up. And at some point they failed "to keep up" at highter listening levels. Just didn't sound natural to me. I have 2 nice Velo 15" subs in my back storage room. Tried it, canned it. I never tried to incorporate them with active crossovers though. A properly delayed system all timber matched would probably be very sweet.

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This is an interesting thread...If you would have asked this question 3-4 years ago on this forum, the 2 Ch. purists would be all over you for even suggesting a sub in a 2 Ch system........or EQ or tone controls for that matter too. All that was taboo. Now it seems many folks are using subs in 2 Ch. I'm a little surprised actually.

Yeah, maybe our friendly "audio purists" are hiding in their caves (i.e., "other forums" on this venue)...

...What would not surprise me as much is the "active" guys though. If you are using active crossovers and time delaying drivers, a sub is just another driver and it makes more sense to me like that...

I look at the problem from sort of a pragmatic way--I think of a sub sort of like a lf bin but crossed at a lower point, and that goes lower.

There are other advantages to looking at subs this way. I personally don't like the use of sub drivers that suffer from compression distortion due to the fact that they are not coupled very well to the room's acoustic environment (i.e., too small an effective surface area for the pass-band frequencies). There are two ways to deal with that problem: add more surface area of the direct radiator like a very large box [e.g., a KPT-684] with a lot of direct radiator driver surface that doesn't have to move very far, or use of a horn-loaded sub that more effectively couples through impedance matching with the air/room boundaries. And tapped horns are very small for their output at sub frequencies.

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Subs are split off out of a Marantz Model 3600 two-channel preamp. I use the parametric eq's on the SVS's and a Behringer Feedback Destroyer with the Velodynes. Crossovers on the subs are turned all the way up. The bass is more accurate and more powerful this way......it took me a few years to figure this out. Then it's just a matter of dialing in the gain properly to eliminate any "boominess".

This Marantz preamp is the first preamp I've had that sends a serious signal to the subs and speakers. What a difference from the receivers I used prior (Denon, Harmon Kardon, Peach ll). Bi-amping the RF-7's with Crown XTI-2000's powering the bass and a vintage Marantz 2230 on the highs it rocks. [Y]

Not a "purist" system by any means.......but man does it sound cool.......especially with rock music and live recordings. [:D]

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Two 15" Velodyne subs stacked and two SVS PB-12 Ultra/2 subs stacked.....in stereo.....with four RF-7's. Sooo, "Quad" stereo I guess you could say.

Headroom up the ying yang. Big Smile

That's got to be sickBeer I've run my rsw 15 with my velodyne 1512 and 2 10's in the RP 3's with rf 7's and it was overwhelming. Are you running everything through the subs and utilizing their crossovers? I'm not, just using the crossover controls in my onkyo to adjust what goes to the rf 7's. What have you found works best?
oops

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That has been my issue with the jube or any of the heritage bass bins. They sound great but eventually I feel the need for a sub with music. Not talking HT here. That is why I decided to build straight horns and then use a sub. This probably has a lot to do with the type of music I listen too and I've always been a big bass freak.

It was hard to find some subs to keep up with my la scalas. I agree, it would take large surface area direct radiators or a horn sub....IMO.

jc

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What sort of music?

That has been my issue with the jube or any of the heritage bass bins. They sound great but eventually I feel the need for a sub with music. Not talking HT here. That is why I decided to build straight horns and then use a sub. This probably has a lot to do with the type of music I listen too and I've always been a big bass freak.

It was hard to find some subs to keep up with my la scalas. I agree, it would take large surface area direct radiators or a horn sub....IMO.

jc

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This probably has a lot to do with the type of music I listen too and I've always been a big bass freak.

Bass Freaks rejoice!!

......clean, accurate bass of course. [;)]

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Do I use a sub in your 2-channel? No - normally not as I feel it has a more live sound in pure direct mode but like previously mentioned earlier in thread, an absolute YES in HT

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I am not running a sub, but at times I wish I would cause I like when I feel the music. There is a gentleman around here somewhere, that I have not seen in a while, that was running I believe 4 15" Yamaha sub woofers with his pair of Cornwalls, and two Heresies. lets just say it was heart rejuvenating. It was great at high levels and not that it sounded bad at low just wasn't necessary. But if I had the right sub set up I know I would.

duder

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