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To subwoofer or not to subwoofer - that is the question.


New Guy

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First some clarifying info - I'm kinda a noob but set to buy some floor-standing speakers from the Reference line. Initially these speakers will be in my small living room and will be primarily used for music, but occasionally movies. I listen to everything in the spectrum between jazz and dance/techno (but not jazz & techno!). Eventually these will be moved to a larger 'study' room where I will continue my same listening habits while the kids take over the living room. The music is mostly played between a 4-7 volume, but is sometimes cranked up to 9 for those most memorable songs. I appreciate the full range of true, natural sound which is what led me to Klipsch (also listening to my buddy's RF-52s). Because of my listening habits it seems like the Heritage series is too 'loudspeaker-y' to me, while the RF-7s might be too harsh and tinny? I live in the middle of nowhere so listening room trials are kind of out of the question. Currently I have a mid-level Yamaha receiver & quality cables, though a receiver will likely be my next upgrade. As far as the Reference line or comparable goes - money is not an issue. So...

1) Are the RF-83s too big for me? Soundwise? Or can they produce enough of the needed punch (or even just low-end realism) at mid volume levels?

2) Or am I better off getting the RF-52s and one of the matching RF subs? I have a punchy Yamaha sub currently which may or may not be incorporated into the new system. Is this the better route to complement the RF-52's or are the RF-83s not only larger capacity but also all around 'better' speakers? Or does adding a sub 'ruin' the 2 channel experience?

3) What is the Klipsch return policy like? Say if I decide to return for RF-83s for 52s & a sub? Has anyone had a bad experience?

I hope this is enough pertinent info to go on. Thanks in advance for the responses. So far I've found this forum to be quite respectful, level-headed, and devoid of flamers - a rarity!

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Hey New Guy, Welcome to the Klipsch Forums, we are glad you are here.

I am a Heritage guy. La Scala's! I use a sub to fill in the bottom end. It is calibrated and never boomy. When I watch movies, the sub gets bumped up a couple db's, but not for music.

I can't speak to the Reference line, as I have never heard any. But I wanted to say Welcome and pull up a seat, you are in for a wild ride.

Dennie

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You must have a sub for the very very bottom end. The speakers you are looking at are fine and will have plenty of punch and bass (if driven correctly) so some might say you don't NEED a sub. But a good sub will handle the low frequency info that your speakers can't get to. Buy your speakers first then save up for a good sub.

Thanx, Russ

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hey newby

welcome to this land of audio maniacs

well i used to love big speakers with depth of sound and boomy bass

until

yes

until i met this guy , a cousin of mine, who showed me his system

he had a pair of bookshelf speakers and a pre power amplifier setup from rotel , 40 watts only

the speakers ,yes , wilson duette

changed my world

from that day on , i never looked for a subwoofer

never dreamed of buying anything that sounds like a subwoofer ,lolz

hope u understand , music needs to be flat end

subs are too artificial for music , but nevertheless they do gud for movies , imho

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hey newby

welcome to this land of audio maniacs

well i used to love big speakers with depth of sound and boomy bass

until

yes

until i met this guy , a cousin of mine, who showed me his system

he had a pair of bookshelf speakers and a pre power amplifier setup from rotel , 40 watts only

the speakers ,yes , wilson duette

changed my world

from that day on , i never looked for a subwoofer

never dreamed of buying anything that sounds like a subwoofer ,lolz

hope u understand , music needs to be flat end

subs are too artificial for music , but nevertheless they do gud for movies , imho

hope that helps

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Subwoofers are boomy and artificial sounding. They should never be used for listening to music.....ever. Wink

I was being sarcastic. Subs can sound awesome for two-channel playback if they're dialed in correctly. If the sub sounds boomy or artificial it's either because the sub sucks or it's not implemented properly....or both. YMMV.

Welcome to the forum. [:D]

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It really depends on your music as well. I mostly listen to acoustic jazz recordings from the 50's - 70's, whose lowest instrument was the string bass. With jazz, I find a sub to be bloated and artificial sounding, and get by just fine without one. Rock music and DVD's are a different story entirely - something is missing without that energy below 50Hz.

My sub is working just fine. 19KHZ to 80KHZ. No boomy.

JJK

That must be quite a strange sub if it only covers ultrasonic frequencies [:D] You obviously meant 19Hz-80Hz, not 19000Hz (i.e., 19kHz).

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Okies, New Guy. If Heritage is "too loudspeakery" to you then accuracy is obviously not an issue. If that were your only question that would be my only response. However, your main question was about to subwoofer or not. Most music doesn't require one. Some does. While you won't hear this from many, my own experience suggest the piano is one. Realistic piano is the Waterloo of most engineers and the prime test of any medium and system. Much as I love my vinyl, I wish someone could point me to a realistic piano recording in that medium. Anyway, the fact is that things like pianos and pipe organs...especially pipe organs where the very low frequencies are sustained...require a subwoofer pretty much regardless of the primary speaker.

A properly chosen and adjusted subwoofer is inaudible in itself. If I hear mine, I turn it down in 3db increments until I find the point at which I don't hear it.

Then, I put on Virgil Fox Crystal Clear Direct to Disc Bach and crank it. By now, I have the downstairs china secured so we haven't lost any in several years.

Dave

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With jazz, I find a sub to be bloated and artificial sounding, and get by just fine without one. Rock music and DVD's are a different story entirely - something is missing without that energy below 50Hz

Well put 33RPM. [Y]
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With jazz, I find a sub to be bloated and artificial sounding, and get by just fine without one. Rock music and DVD's are a different story entirely - something is missing without that energy below 50Hz

Well put 33RPM. Yes

Certainly well put, but it's either a crappy sub or one maladusted. A proper sub should not be heard!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave

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With jazz, I find a sub to be bloated and artificial sounding, and get by just fine without one. Rock music and DVD's are a different story entirely - something is missing without that energy below 50Hz

Well put 33RPM. Yes

Certainly well put, but it's either a crappy sub or one maladusted. A proper sub should not be heard!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave

When I listen to well recorded smooth jazz, I either turn my subs off or only listen to my good subs. Not hearing them, of course. [;)]

When I listen to rock music (which is most of the time) I'm sure to include my raunchy subs. The combination just works for heavy music. The added energy to music that is based on distortion gives a much more "live" feel to the experience......and you definitely feel it. [Y]

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With jazz, I find a sub to be bloated and artificial sounding, and get by just fine without one. Rock music and DVD's are a different story entirely - something is missing without that energy below 50Hz

Well put 33RPM. Yes

Certainly well put, but it's either a crappy sub or one maladusted. A proper sub should not be heard!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave

I completely agree Dave. I used to wonder if my sub was on. So, I would get up, walk over to it and see if the light was green or red. Always green. So I don't get up to check anymore. A properly calibrated sub will not make itself known. It will just blend in.


Dennie

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