DIY New La Scala Crossover

[neo33]

This is the original crossover in my 33-year old pair of La Scalas. It still makes my speakers sound incredible.

I would like to build a new crossover with a modern look, detachable and more natural sounding. Any suggestion for parts is welcomed.

[Dennie]

That's exactly what my 30 year old AA crossovers looked like in my La Scala's and I thought they sounded great too.

WRONG!!!

I bought a pair of these from Bob & Michael Crites............

It was literally like taking a blanket off of my speakers. The Bass was now there, the Mids and Highs just cleared up. The sound was night and day and I'm not using that term lightly. I now here "Air" around the cymbal's, which was blocked by that blanket I spoke of. They just sound like completely new speakers. I always wondered if my tweeters might be blown, but now I know they are not, it was just the old capacitors.

I asked Bob on the phone if I would really hear a difference, because like you, I thought my speakers sounded great with the original crossovers, he just laughed. Now I know why!

Here is a LINK to his site -------------> CLICK HERE

Dennie

[neo33]

Thanks for the info, but I want to build the crossovers myself.

[Cut-Throat]

Thanks for the info, but I want to build the crossovers myself.

Check out the crossovers that I just built. Crossovers

I would recommend going with the Klipsch Type "A". I bought my LItz inductors from Solen in Canada and the Clarity Caps from Madisonsound. The new Autoformers I got from Bob Crites. The binding posts are Cardas and can be had from a lot of high-end audio parts dealers. Some copper speaker wire, and some Paduak wood at your lumber yard that stocks exotics and you are good to go!

[Dennie]

Thanks for the info, but I want to build the crossovers myself.

Good for you, I am such a novice I was afraid that something would probably blow up if "I" tried to rebuild them.

Bob also sells parts. There are other crossovers out there and other parts too, I was just sharing my experience.

I also feel I should say, your La Scala's may sound great. I was not trying to tell you that they "must" sound bad, just because mind did and I didn't know it. I just could not believe the difference, when I added the new crossovers.

I am looking forward to following your progress,

Dennie

[neo33]

Check out the crossovers that I just built. Crossovers

I would recommend going with the Klipsch Type "A". I bought my LItz inductors from Solen in Canada and the Clarity Caps from Madisonsound. The new Autoformers I got from Bob Crites. The binding posts are Cardas and can be had from a lot of high-end audio parts dealers. Some copper speaker wire, and some Paduak wood at your lumber yard that stocks exotics and you are good to go!

I did Cut-Throat, and I want to build something like that. Very nice work and it looks like a piece of artwork.

[Marvel]

neo, I built replacements for my LS, using a design by John Albright. They are a constant impedance type, which work great with the Moondogs or other low output tube amps.

Mine aren't beautiful, but they work very well.

Bruce

[jhoak]

I built replacements for my LS, using a design by John Albright. They are a constant impedance type, which work great with the Moondogs or other low output tube amps.

Any chance we could get you to share that design with us?

If you set on building your own take a look at the "Universal" kits from ALK Engineering. They're $300 plus shipping and include everything.

Al also has the schematics and layouts available free for the download. I took the time to track down and price all of the parts to DIY them from the plans and they ended up about $40 more than the kits. When I started looking at replacing the caps with higher quality one the pricing just went up from there. WAY up.

Good info here: http://www.alkeng.com/ Click on the Klipsch image on the left side of the page.

[Marvel]

This was a mod to the original DHA2, with 400 and 6k crossover points.

I used one of the Erse steel cores for the woofer inductor, and left off the tweeter protection circuit that John had in it. We went with a 3.3 uF tweeter cap, which gives a crossover point of 6K, but being first order slopes, this is more of a range.

I'm using the APT150 tweeter, which has the same driver as Bob's CT125, but the larger Eminence horn (100x150)

Bruce

[Marvel]

Here's one of mine next to one of Al's universals. Mine are just on some poplar with a few coats of BLO.

[SET12]

Heres my Buddies LaScala DIY ALK's on Plexiglass

Hope this gives some ideas.

SET12

[neo33]

Can anyone that use Al's Universal give me an impression?

[jhoak]

There are a lot of folks here using them. You might want to post the question about ALK Universals over in the Updates and Modifications area.

I don't have a pair...Yet. I'm pretty sure a pair of Universals is "in the cards" for me they're just not "in the budget" at the moment. []

[Marvel]

Can anyone that use Al's Universal give me an impression?

Since it is obvious from the pic I posted, I have used Al's (on loan from John Albright, while I built mine).

First off, I listen at fairly low levels, with 80-90db averages. At those levels, I really couldn't tell a difference between Al's and mine. I'm not saying there isn't a difference, I just couldn't tell. I even had one of mine on one channel and a Universal on the other. The sound was the same, imaging was just fine all the way across the sound stage. that was driving them with my Merlin into my Moondogs.

I had the Universals infor quite a while, as John could certainly attest. It owuld be interesting to try them again, but I am a happy camper as is, and don't need to spend more money right now.

Al's kits are really a good price, and you could still build his on a nice base.

Imaging and detail is fine with the Universals, and the lower slope crossover points may be a plus in a smaller room, as there is a gradual transition between drivers. If you were further back from them, the extreme slope models might be better, but many have said you need to put some power to them before they sound their best. The Moondogs won't do that very well.

Keep in mind that I am using the APT150 tweeter, so I have a wider horizontal and verticle dispersion. Everything blends very well in my room (13 x 20), and I am about 10 feet back from mine. They are toed in to meet right behind me. I get about 3db of gain in the low end from boundary gain, as I sit agaisnt the end wall of the room. I would swap end to end but my couch would block entry into the room, even if I had more space behind me.

Bruce

[Pete H]

Here's one of mine next to one of Al's universals. Mine are just on some poplar with a few coats of BLO.

Keep in mind that I don't know squat about crossover design yet, but the number of chokes and caps is totally different in these two designs. What was the reason for changing them so drastically?

[SET12]

Can anyone that use Al's Universal give me an impression?

I can tell you that what was enticing about Al's networks was the ability to adjust the mids level which my buddy and I felt was elevated sucking out the low end in our opinions.

Once the mids were lowered the Bass came in spades over all the speaker is much warmer sounding!

Part of this I believe is the use of Air Core Inductors! Which I find the larger the better!

Many people like to use subs with LaScala's but with Al's networks as my buddy has done them none are needed!

Also consider the range of the LaScala woofer vs. a sub! You get several hundred Hz of warmth from the ALK networks as the sub is only good basicly to 120Hz.

I could hear the difference with the new networks as I walked into the room, they were that profound to me.

They inspired me to redo my own stock Forte networks which opened my ears to what is possible! Which case I designed my outboard networks so I could try different componets in a matter of minutes and I found everthing has its own signature some good and some not so good! Of course much is system dependent.

I know now from this experiance I would have a hard time living with most Klipsch stock networks along with the typical parts I even see used in upgrades. What I did was extreme but worth every penny I put into them both for what I learned and the sound.

My Outboard Forte Networks

[neo33]

I am thinking of building new crossovers for my La Scalas base on Al's Universal. Is there any additional improvement need to be make to Al'?

[SET12]

I am thinking of building new crossovers for my La Scalas base on Al's Universal. Is there any additional improvement need to be make to Al'?

While I have great respect for Al's work, I do find there is always room for improvements subjectively! For instance while Al suggests not using anything but Litz Inductors for the squawker and tweeter or you'll regret it! I beg to differ! I tried Litz 14 AWG in contrast to my 8 AWG solid core and found the Litz to sound very thin and way over the top in detail, it was just to much in a big way! While I found the North Creek very full sounding, smooth and just right for Bob Crites tweeters. It is so right that people have a hard time believing they are listening to horns when here.

Inductors, So you can see I'm partial to North Creek as they have served me well as to your values you can get the North Creek custom made and I wouldn't hesitate at all on those if owned a pair of LaScala's and I would do the largest I could affoard and I think the 8 AWG's for the squawker and tweeter look affordable.

One of the selling points for me on North Creeks was their low tension winding as most manufactures use high tension winding methods which cause micro fractures in the wire.

A friend of mine just informed me that Mundorf has Inductors as well and prices look very good for their air cores.

Duelund also make Inductors but their prices are almost double for their PIO inductors (not even their best!) vs my North Creek Low Frequency 3mH 8 AWG's at $500/pair

Its pretty amazing what is available and just what these exotic parts are capable of IMO!

Another thing to remember is just because something is in parallel and out of the mainstream signal path don't think its signature is not important!

That point was made to me with the 40 ohm tweeter resistors which I was using Ohmites that North Creek spent a fair amount of time auditioning some 20 varieties of resistors to be used with their speakers. One issue for them was temperature coefficient as most resistors have a positive coefficient he wanted to use one with the lowest possible coefficient as he felt that high ones impede dynamic response!

Well I think he was right cause I use Duelund resistors which have a negative temperature coefficient they are made of Graphite and are 4-5 times more expensive than your typical wire wound resistor but they are by far the very best I have ever heard by far and I don't mean this lightly, They are that good in that they make most resistors sound strained and rough in contrast! These are 18-$20 each but as I said worth every penny!

Caps, I prefer Duelund VSF or I'd even try their Aluminum or Mundorf Silver and Oil.

This just a start for you here of course there's more to comment on but the the items above for me are far and above the norm in my experiance , more or less you can go as far as you want!

But the people that have used this stuff that I have are just as satisfied as I am and especially the Duelund parts as the man spent his life developing them and I certainly hear his efforts.

SET12

[neo33]

Thanks for the wealth of info. BTW, your Forte's Crossover is very nice.

[twu]

Neo, what binding post did you use in your crossover? I like what you used there, nice and clean. I was thinking of using something similar for my crossovers. Can you send me a link to where you got them? Thanks.