ZAKO Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Mike TN,,, you cant handle the truth,,, You still putting those diffusers next to your ears??? Only a Narcissus would have that many mirrors in the listening room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Your funny MARoooooon...! and by the way no mirrors in my room not that that's always a bad thing if done right...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 But do you reflect an image ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Speaking of image,,,Have you heard the TAD 4003,,, I thought the 4002 couldnt be improved upon,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Speaking of image,,,Have you heard the TAD 4003,,, I thought the 4002 couldnt be improved upon,,, Heck nothings perfect...but I'm sure pleased with them...! Hey this is some funny stuff.....looks like you've got your hands full...! He's got some really good points about those Tannoys. http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/128592.aspx?PageIndex=3 mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Wow ssctrojan..... I'm impressed. You are gonna find out what you like by different demos in your own listening room. If you got the time and can afford to try out different options...... Say....are you gonna add braces to those bass bins??? Or did I miss you addressing that. So are you thinking the material used to build the horn could make you like the K402 better? jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssctrojan1980 Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 I think so. A 402 built out of wood might be just what a man is after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssctrojan1980 Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 Hey ssctrojan1980 Thanks so much for responding to my post in this manner..! At least describing the method in how you formed your opinions helps everyone to understand what it was based on. So am I to conclude that few if any measurements were performed to assist in optimizing either horn/driver combinations? Please understand IMHO, conclusions about either horn with any chance of certainty can't be learned by others (as well as yourself) from what you have done so far because of the large variables that haven't been addressed. I have to ask are you searching for accurate reproduction and/or is your goal just production of a pleasent sound you will enjoy? mike tn I would assume that a person would seach for the accurate reproduction and sound quality. I once hear that if something works well on paper but doesn't sound right, throw it away. But if something sounds great and tests on paper badly, find a new way to test it. The environment that i made these tests in were adequate. It doesn't have to be a 50000 dollar sound studio with rocket science parameters. If it sounds good, then is sounds good. I don't care what test or sheet of paper says otherwise. That is why there is more than 1 speaker, 1 company, 1 driver. People have different preferences when it comes to sound. For the midrange i wanna hear and for me my midrange is 800 all the way up to 4500, my wood horns sound better than the k402. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Mike,,,Yes he keeps pulling up more excuses,, about the westys,,, and getting info mixed up,,,There were 4 versions of the Westminster Royals,,I,m surprised he has,nt turned one upside down,,, He even try,s to guess my Heritage background and has that screwed up...For a guy that cant make a simple solder joint,,I dont even know why he even bothers to show his ignorence.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssctrojan1980 Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 Wow ssctrojan..... I'm impressed. You are gonna find out what you like by different demos in your own listening room. If you got the time and can afford to try out different options...... Say....are you gonna add braces to those bass bins??? Or did I miss you addressing that. So are you thinking the material used to build the horn could make you like the K402 better? jc yes. I have the cloth off and i am adding braces. I wouldn't care if they are mine but these are not mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 sstrojan,,, How long do you think it will take to make your wood 402 ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssctrojan1980 Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 sstrojan,,, How long do you think it will take to make your wood 402 ???? I have to make a bigger jig. But basically the good part of a day. Most of that would be glue drying. I would have already made 1 but i have to get these finished and touched up and shipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 I would assume that a person would seach for the accurate reproduction and sound quality. I once hear that if something works well on paper but doesn't sound right, throw it away. But if something sounds great and tests on paper badly, find a new way to test it. The environment that i made these tests in were adequate. It doesn't have to be a 50000 dollar sound studio with rocket science parameters. If it sounds good, then is sounds good. I don't care what test or sheet of paper says otherwise. That is why there is more than 1 speaker, 1 company, 1 driver. People have different preferences when it comes to sound. For the midrange i wanna hear and for me my midrange is 800 all the way up to 4500, my wood horns sound better than the k402. Hey ssctrojan1980 I've heard this kind of reasoning before and IMHO. Some very respected researchers in the sound reproduction field have done excellent research that has proven this simplistic thinking/method to be seriously flawed with many potential pitfalls for false conclusions being formed. If you or anyone are really serious about advancing your knowledge and abilities in loudspeaker designing and room acoustics(and it's extreem influence on sound reproduction) then I would strongly encourage you to seek out and read a book by...... Floyde E. Toole " Sound Reproduction Loudspeakers and Rooms" Interestingly enough you will find Toole has found situations were testing itself was inadequate(we all know this can occure) to catch something perceived during listening sessions. Once this was discovered and the reason tracked down the test methods resolution was increased so that the testing method was able to indicate this problem next time. At the same time Toole has also shown how unless listening conditions variables are well controlled the listening results and assumptions can be very misleading. It's very obviouse that unless one is willing to test properly and perform listening test properly advancements in accurate sound reproduction will be near impossible. mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssctrojan1980 Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 The bottom line is.... What does your ear tell you. That is all that matters. Test equipment doesn't say.. hmmm, that seems a little muddy. or that midrange sounds a little hot. or wow, her voice is right at you. So again.... the bottom line is what the ear hears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 The bottom line is.... What does your ear tell you. That is all that matters. Test equipment doesn't say.. hmmm, that seems a little muddy. or that midrange sounds a little hot. or wow, her voice is right at you. So again.... the bottom line is what the ear hears. OK....I don't think I can offer much more reasoning than what I have already offered on this subject. I'll leave you with this thought though: Why do you think PWK, Klipsch and many other respectable companies invested multi- $1,000,000 in test facilities and test equipment if all that matters is what the ears hear? Who's perfect ears do we trust? mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 ssctrojan1980..........you are a very talented craftsman but when I read comments like "The bottom line is.... What does your ear tell you. That is all that matters"......and you basically reject measurements and verification............well then......... my bottom line (voice of the customer) becomes " I would never buy a product like that. No matter how nice it looked. It is not an engineered solution. There is no proof of performance. It is just a DIY project." I would never choose such a product over an engineered and proven solution such as Klipsch. Espcially when the designer and manufacturer rejects testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Welllllll when Paul Klipsch made the Khorns,,, His testing was very primitive,, Thiele Small measurements where not around,,, Complience was done with a string,,He called the Pull Facter,,And so on,,,He made many crude measurement and modifications,, Some with an AX,,,I have his tech letters on how rough it was,, But customers by word of mouth knocked on his door,,and wanted him to keep building,, ssctrojan !! dont be discouraged,,,Do what you do best,,and do follow your ears,, Paul did,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 PWK's thoughts and warning.....!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 PWK's thoughts and warning.....!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 PWK's thoughts and warning.....!!! PWK quoting John Ruskin DFH Vol15 no:3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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