Coytee Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I wonder what coke or pepsi thought when its competitors came on the market I wonder if Remington cried when S&W started making guns, or savage or glock or fnh What would you speculate the companies above attitude might be if said competitor was trying to ascertain their designs/recipes on their website and then turning right around on same website to undercut their own business, improved unit or not? Would it be reasonable that each of those companies might not view that in the best light? I think it's fairly safe to say that the reason you are trying to sell these here is this is where you might stumble onto the most people that are familar with them, have the most desire for them and have the most understanding of them. Wouldn't do you as much good to grab the design off this website and go to the McIntosh forum on Audiokarma to sell them, would it? I think it has already been mentioned that if you are going to sell these it might be less abrasive to some (like, people who have a lot of history and respect for this company and their products) to simply put your sale sign on another forum. You seem pretty bent on shunning well intended suggestions and that's your choice. This thread/topic is over my pay grade. i might be a some young punk in my 20's Age has nothing to do with respect and discretion Cry me a river. build me a bridge, and get over it!!! See above comment about respect & discretion [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssctrojan1980 Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 Coyote. So you think 2 different companies just somehow came up with basically the same drink. (coke/pepsi) Wow what a coincidence. Or did 1 of them taste the others and say lets make something similar or close to it. Or did 1 try to get the others recipe and change it just a little because of their success? I wonder what Ford thought when Chevrolet and Dodge started making cars and trucks. And by the way, this thread was never about advertising. it was about finishing off my custom top and someone asked if i folded up a 402 and put inside my tophat. I kindly responded and here we are. You guys need to go take your ritalin and try to stay on topic. Some suggested that i take off the covering and add frames. i did. took their advice and i like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I dyno'd my previous two vehicles. One was just for the heck of it(no mods at all). The other was to validate on paper the amount of HP and TQ at the rear wheels as well as to fine tune my timing and AFR's. I knew it was much faster than stock without the dyno but the dyno was able to show me a few areas where my ignition timing could be improved. My AFR's were actually spot on due to the wideband O2 controller I had and all the datalogging/tuning I had done on my own. I think that sound testing gear is a similar situation. A speaker can sound really good but in fact have a few things wrong that a modest test rig would point out. -JPB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamhead Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Every copy that you make and sell is one less potential sale they might have but.... what if everyone was doing that? (everyone defined as private and commercial concerns). 'flaunting' your skills and desires on the very forum of the company that created them Coytee, I will say first off you are entitled to your opinion, but you are dead wrong when you say that the couple of or the couple more cabs I will probably build affect Klipsch, sorry but those who purchased these from me will never be able to purchase the real thing- point blank! Second wake up and look around, everyone is, tell that to Mercedes or BMW, everytime they bring out a new look or style in autos next year GM, Hyundai, and Kia have one available that is hard to distinguish, they just call it something else so in the future when I sell a set or two I will call it the ULTIMATE (I don't think dana white and the MMA will mind) and if someone says ah that's just a jubilee copy I will just say you really think so? Tell that same line to Steve Jobs at apple, Tell it to Bill Gates and he will tell you cry me a river while I go back to work cause the hounds are at the door! And finally flaunting is a very poor word, I have FLAUNTED NOTHING, I only responded when so many attacked ssctrojan for building jube copies (and I agree that his attitude has become to harsh just like the many here on the forum that have attacked him, and further agree that this isn't the place to sell his wares!) I made some opinions of mine public about the way I perceived what Paul Klipsch had said to me and people think I have slammed and disrespected him-not the case I have made my respect for the man well known. Most of these forum hovering junkyard dogs that attack my statements on testing (and I will test and make public those findings to this forum) and show their ignorance when they just don't understand that it comes down to the fact that they are a objectivist (dogs you can go to the dictionary) and I am a subjectivist plain and simple! While I believe in testing and it's validation I do not let it tell me if I like what I hear or not I let my ears do that, that is why I listen with tube amps, the specs are crappy, but I still like what I hear! I don't discount what the objectivist tells me I just have the capacity to not allow it to make my decisions for me and tell me if I like something, In the end I will say it is RARE and the dogs need to remember as their fur brissles up their backs I said rare not NEVER that I meet an objectivist that can be happy with much for very long! Unless of course they regularly are going back and forth to the spec sheet to validate to themselves what they are hearing! As for me I am far to busy to spend the time on this forum argueing with all the forum dogs, and in retrospect it makes me unhappy and grumpy like them, and that in it self bothers me the most because I am known in my arena as a very happy and continted man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Spamhead, I wonder if you either missed or possibly ignored the subtle point I was trying to get across. For the record, I have had guys in my home who have made a Jubilee clone. I have been in the homes of guys who have made them AND, I have dined with yet other guys who have built clones as well. I don't have anything agasint someone doing this for themselves. I actually admire their abiltity to do so and would be somewhat envious of that skill. So, it's not that I think it's offensive that you are making them per se'. What I think some around here might find objectionable is that you are soliciting them on the very site who's design you are copying. To me, there is a difference between making something for yourself and ostensibly, a commercial venture to produce them for sale to others while using the companys hosted website as your location of advertising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamhead Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Every copy that you make and sell is one less potential sale they might have. Coytee come on, have you forgotten forum dogs attacked and barbequed a guy name Swinhall down in Texas a few years ago for making Klipsch copies? And just think of it he has the audacity to have a showroom and copies of khorns, lascalla's and heresy speakers on site! That dirty dog, what really sticks out is that Paul Klipsch wasn't intimidated by him, he even sold him the drivers to do it with back in the sixties, when Swinhall or maybe it was Swinwall sent him another letter telling Paul that he planned on making an updated la scalla Mr. Klipsch not only sold him more drivers but told him to send him some pics of his work, now if you check out what is said on the net and the historians can correct me if I and my computer is reading incorrectly it is not sure or stated by this Swinhall guy if it change any thinking but just the next year the Belle klipsch came out, and strangely enough if looked just like his design and the pics he sent to Paul, you make your own decisions, it really doesn't matter to me what I am saying is how will a few sets of speakers affect Klipsch if this guy with his showroom and production facilities down in I believe Big Springs, Tx haven't affected them or put them and the Heritage line out of business how possibly could I? If Paul Klipsch wasn't aggrivated of intimidated by him (and maybe the historians will correct me and say that it did make Paul mad, if so oh well, I am wrong again) why should so many forum members be? Maybe I should shoot this guy an email and tell him he has been exposed again and to watch out some of the extreamist forum dogs may come to burn him out vigilante style! I don't try to sell my cabs on this or any other forum, it has been just a few sets by word of mouth with people who can't afford the origional, I think that Paul allowed it because he understood that emulation is the sincerest form of flattery. My speakers aren't perfect and I tell buyers that, come to think of it there was ONE perfect thing ever on this earth and THEY KILLED HIM! maybe their were some forum members in that pack also! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Shinall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamhead Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Spamhead, I wonder if you either missed or possibly ignored the subtle point I was trying to get across. For the record, I have had guys in my home who have made a Jubilee clone. I have been in the homes of guys who have made them AND, I have dined with yet other guys who have built clones as well. I don't have anything agasint someone doing this for themselves. I actually admire their abiltity to do so and would be somewhat envious of that skill. So, it's not that I think it's offensive that you are making them per se'. What I think some around here might find objectionable is that you are soliciting them on the very site who's design you are copying. To me, there is a difference between making something for yourself and ostensibly, a commercial venture to produce them for sale to others while using the companys hosted website as your location of advertising. Wrong Again Coytee, YOU need to now check your facts, I HAVE NOT solicited any sales or customers on this site (or others) and have told nobody my name or how to purchase anything from me, you need to re read this thread, I have only come in defense of others who have made copies wheather for personal use or to pass on to someone else! I have seen pics that have been placed by Greg Roberts of a dozen or so of his vtrac horns ready for sale and he did that in response to another forum members (probably a buddy of his) sending him a pm asking what have you been up to lately or the like, now to me that is saying been building these horns I'm selling and while it gets by the forum rules by the skin of its teeth is it commercialism or bad ethics you decide, I think it is smart advertising, but I have done none of it period. I have been ridiculed for making a copy of a product that is still in production, what say you to the FACT that the vtrachorn is a direct copy of the ALK trachorn that I might add is still also in production, doesn't according to your previous statement steal a potential sale from Al Klappenburger? I mean come on now, what is good for the goose is good for the gander! what about his update kits he sells on ebay for the khorn, how dare he change Pauls design and make money at it! Hogwash I say, power to him if his customers are satisfied who cares, but my question is why do you and others allow some to do what you incorrectly acuse me of doing? Why is your opinion that it is ok for some and not others? Is it that they have been around long enough to kiss the right butts and get some support on the forum for their indeavors and others are ostrisized for even appearing to be doing the same? Isn't this attitude much like the snobs at the local countryclub? But once again you need to check the facts, I have solicited no sales or prospects on this site! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSamuel Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Also... I wonder if JRH remembers flipping me the bird at one fateful day at the Indy get together when some smart-hiney made a comment about the first time he (JRH) heard Klipschorns, it was while palying Marie Osmond. All I know is I was framed, I think Dtel said it! The response however (one bird being flipped) has been worth many a laugh & smile since then. It was appreciated, even though....I really was framed..... *** you Dtel... lol, that was hilarious That was one of the funniest things I've seen, and just shows how down to earth Klipsch folks can be. That was such a great weekend! To clarify... I was there and remeber the incident quite well... the comment was "Marie Osmond" made to JRH's talking about the first thing he heard on Klipschorns was Pink Floyd's "Money" Framed my arse. The forum's resident (fill in your own blank) can't weasel his way out of this one. I'm pretty sure the "Marie Osmond" comment was made by none other than Coytee. So no dragging down Dtel's good name on this one. See this post by Coytee for the sordid confession: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/91987/930956.aspx#930956 (I've really got to learn how to change the displayed text... do we have to do that in HTML? I forget how to do that ) The good name of Dtel had been absolved. Yes it was very funny. As it should be ... I recall Coytee being annointed the Court Jester in the Land of Klipsch for Pilgrimage 2008 but that's another thread.... Is 30 minutes in the chamber of (rhymes with hose) enough punishment? But he might actuall enjoy that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 the vtrac has a different size throat and therefore a different set of measurements than the trachorn. both are similar in construction to bruce edgars tractrix horn article in speaker builder magazine in the days of yore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Curry, all arguments aside. i'm curious what sort of method you used to construct your 402 copies in wood. I've come up with some ideas of my own regarding horn construction but I've wondered how others would do it. -josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I like good music and I prefer Pepsi, unless I am drinking rum, then I want Coke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted January 7, 2010 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2010 Framed my arse. The forum's resident (fill in your own blank) can't weasel his way out of this one. I'm pretty sure the "Marie Osmond" comment was made by none other than Coytee. So no dragging down Dtel's good name on this one. Ok the good name thing is quite the stretch, [:S] but we know who said it and was quickly shown the bird. [] It was funny, the look on JRH's face was worth the trip alone. [] Coytee is a really nice guy but that Osmond thing and the ear lobe fetish is a little weird, but I have heard of worse things ! [] I think he has been out in the country to long, you have to watch the ones that look normal, I wish his wife would sign up here so we could really find out what he's like, someone send her a message. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssctrojan1980 Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 Curry, all arguments aside. i'm curious what sort of method you used to construct your 402 copies in wood. I've come up with some ideas of my own regarding horn construction but I've wondered how others would do it. -josh Well i have not constructed a 402 yet. I literally built half a 402 using my own jig that i use to build horns. As far as the 402 when i get to it i will build a really big jig and take a mold of the 402 (i have 1) and built it outta wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Pictures of your Jig and how it works? -Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssctrojan1980 Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 It is a bunch of wood glued and screwed together that holds the wood in place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 That's funny. Could you be less vague? I'd really like to try using your method to build some horns as it sounds like it works pretty well for you. -Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted January 7, 2010 Moderators Share Posted January 7, 2010 Pictures of your Jig and how it works? -Josh [] What so someone can copy it ! [:^)] Sorry couldn't help it [6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssctrojan1980 Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 Horns are hard to build if you don't have something to hold them in place. They are basically impossible to what i can tell. A jig is piece of wood that you make to hold them together. I would just have to take a picture and show you i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Right, I 've built a couple of jigs in the past for Edgar style tractrix horns. I was curious how you would handle the 402 since it curves on both axis. Do you make yours (the horns)with bendable ply? I was thinking about laminating up based on the cross section of each side to make a much more solid horn. -Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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