The last 'Tonight Show' with COCO O'Brian

[jheis]

It's not really a Jay vs. Conan thing. NBC is just a f'ing disaster under Zucker.

Personally I can't stand Letterman either - he's smarmy - not funny - and I'll never forgive anyone who would subject us to the odious Paul Shaffer.

James

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Gotta love how he portrays himself as a nice guy and is so ruthless in his power moves.

Tiger, Jay is truly a nice guy, I never gotten drunk with him (he doesn't drink) but I have had lunch with him (not that he would remember, he knows my face not my name). What you see on TV is what Jay is. He's fair and honest. NBC fired Jay from the Tonight Show and wanted him to go to 10 o'clock, then they wanted to move him back to 11:35 and have Conan keep the Tonight Show but at 12:05. I'm not sure Jay had much to say about it, other than yes or no. Jay likes to work so he took what they offered. I think that was really all there was to the whole thing.

P.S. Jay says he banks all his Tonight Show money and just buys cars/bikes with his earnings from his stand-up appearances. Must be nice (He says he's the luckiest guy on earth, and he really means it).

Thanx, Russ

I don't know what he is like in person, but I do remember the history in the early 1990's that seems to be repeating itself. Here is a pretty good summary I found on the interenet. It is pretty accurate. The whole Jay Walking thing and stuttering John (if he ever kept him arond) and several other things were stolen for Howard Stern. Carson hated him after he was forced out. Letterman hated him after helping his career and then getting screwed by him. Comedians do not seem to respect him, and this is his industry. Now Conan is feeling the same pain from Leno. He is ruthless no matter how he portrays himself.

1. Leno forced Carson off The Tonight Show

You read it right. Jay Leno forced Johnny "The Tonight Show" Carson off the air after 30 years. By Jay Leno, I mean his manager Helen Kushnick. By the late 80s Leno was Carson's guest host and some of the NBC rocket scientists thought that Carson was getting too old and wanted to replace Carson with Leno. But the suits weren't going to say a word, we're talking about Johnny Carson here. Johnny Carson. So Leno's manager drums up a fake story and gets it published in the New York Post. The fake story says that Carson is out and Leno is in as the new host. NBC denies the story. Leno calls Carson and tells him it wasn't his people that released the fake story. Carson tells Leno, I know it was you. Carson is so pissed at the network for not backing him up after the fake story hits that he retires early, announcing it to the public before he even informs the suits. And so ends the career of Johnny Carson.

David Letterman's dream since childhood was to host The Tonight Show. He idolized Johnny Carson. Letterman quit his job as a broadcaster in Indianapolis to pursue his dream. He starts his stand-up career and meets a young comic named Jay Leno. Letterman looks up to Leno. Letterman gets on The Tonight Show and is a hit. Johnny takes a liking to him. Leno gets on The Tonight Show. He bombs. Eventually Letterman starts guest hosting on The Tonight Show. Then he gets his own talk show right after Johnny; "Late Night" is born. Now David Letterman is the hottest name in comedy. His new show is a hit. He starts bringing his old pal Leno on his new show as a guest. Leno's career has been hurting. But Letterman and Leno have great chemistry. Letterman's show gets Leno another shot at the big time. Soon Leno is guest hosting The Tonight Show and well on his way to forcing Johnny off television once and for all.

2. Leno screwed David Letterman out of The Tonight Show

Carson is gone. Letterman mistakenly believes that he can succeed Johnny the honest way. Carson thought Letterman was great and wanted Dave to replace him. Letterman thought that a decade of popular, critically acclaimed comedy right after Carson, and hundreds of millions in revenue for the network, would earn him The Tonight Show. But Leno wanted it just as bad, not because it was his dream, he just wanted it. Leno didn't care about The Tonight Show, and he certainly didn't care about Carson, who he had already taken care of. He just wanted the biggest spotlight. Letterman was the dreamer, the idealist, and the honest combatant. Leno was the shrewd, anything-goes schemer. At best, Leno was willfully ignorant of his sleazy manager's underhanded tactics. Leno got the job.

Leno's ratings sucked after he took over The Tonight Show and NBC was already ready to replace him. Who did they turn to? David Letterman. Still under contract with NBC and working on Late Night, Letterman was nearing a deal with CBS to take over what would become The Late Show. NBC countered what CBS was offering in an attempt to keep Letterman at NBC. The NBC rocket scientists offered Letterman The Tonight Show. He just had to wait until Leno's first contract expired in 17 months. Sound familiar? Letterman was on cloud nine. He was getting The Tonight Show. He was going to succeed Johnny. His dream. But his producer, Lassally (once Carson's producer) told Dave it was a bad deal. Lassally said that no matter what, Dave would get screwed if he took NBC's deal. Either Leno would turn his ratings around and NBC would weasel out of its promise to give Letterman The Tonight Show, or Letterman would be branded the villain who forced Leno off The Tonight Show. Dave agreed, but couldn't say no to The Tonight Show. It was his lifelong dream to host The Tonight Show. His entire career he had idolized Johnny Carson and wanted nothing more than to succeed him. Lassally told Dave that he could never succeed Carson now. Carson's show was gone forever. If Dave took over now, it would be Leno's Tonight Show he would inherit. Dave still couldn't say no. Lassally did the only thing he could think of to save Dave's career; he called Johnny Carson.

Carson agreed to talk to Letterman. Lassally told Dave to call Johnny. Dave did. Carson told him to do what was best for his career, and to follow his heart. Dave replied that the two were not the same. Going to CBS was best for his career, but The Tonight Show was his heart. Dave asked Johnny what he would do. Johnny said he would walk. Letterman walked. The Late Show was born on CBS.

Leno fires his manager. The woman who forced Carson off television for him and then bullied the NBC suits (primarily Warren Littlefield) into giving him The Tonight Show. Everyone in the business hated the woman. She was the scapegoat. Leno loses in the ratings to Letterman. Until Hugh Grant shows up on The Tonight Show after being arrested with a prostitute.

3. Leno screws Conan O'Brien out of The Tonight Show

We get to see this one play out right in front of us. Conan O'Brien was hired to replace David Letterman after Dave turned down NBC's screw-deal and headed to CBS. Conan was an unknown comedy writer, not a comedian, not a broadcaster, not an entertainer of any kind. His ratings are terrible. Atrocious. The critics rip him apart. NBC fires him. Then they unfire him because they can't find anyone else to take over his show. They force him to sign 13-week contracts, one after another after another. They want Andy Richter fired. This goes on for years. In a show of support, Letterman crosses network lines to appear on Conan's show. Eventually the ratings begin to improve. NBC stops threatening to fire Conan every week. Soon his show is a hit. By the early 00s Conan is the hottest name in comedy. The other networks are banging on his door, offering him major contracts and their 11:30 slot to compete directly with Leno and Letterman. NBC doesn't want to lose their heir apparent.

In 2004, under some pressure, Leno agrees to sign his finale Tonight Show contract. He tells the media that it is time for him to step away and that Conan is the perfect man to succeed him. Leno says that he doesn't want another messy battle for The Tonight Show. The last one ruined friendships and he doesn't want that to happen again. Conan signs a contract to take over The Tonight Show in 2009. Some (almost no one) say Leno got a bum deal. He was #1 and wasn't ready to retire. After all, it's not like Leno ever forced a television legend off the air. Except for Johnny Carson. But Leno agrees to the deal. Smiles for the cameras. Talks up young Conan. But as 2009 approaches, Leno decides he doesn't want to go through with it after all.

Leno threatens to go to another network and compete directly against Conan. NBC panics and gives Leno a primetime show. The guarantee him, according to some reports, two years on the air, no matter what. They give him a $100 million buyout. For a show that everyone knows is going to fail. Everyone. Everyone. Everyone. Then the show fails. Leno tells an interviewer that he'll go back to The Tonight Show if NBC asks him to. Conan who? Two months later NBC moves Leno's show to 11:30, bumping The Tonight Show from its coveted time slot for the first time in its existence. For nearly 60 years The Tonight Show occupied that time slot. No more. The Jay Leno Show > The Tonight Show.

Leno never gave a damn about The Tonight Show. But Conan O'Brien did. Conan O'Brien grew up idolizing Johnny Carson and David Letterman. It was his dream to host The Tonight Show. Sound familiar? Conan refuses to destroy The Tonight Show. Rather than accept a screw-deal from the NBC rocket scientists, he writes a letter expressing his refusal to host a shell of The Tonight Show after midnight. Leno jokes about being canceled and improving Conan's ratings. NBC fires Conan O'Brien. Leno returns to The Tonight Show. The show he never gave a damn about in the first place.

4. Leno wasted his talent

Jay Leno isn't funny. That's an opinion. Some people find him funny. In fact, many people do. Scientists have been unable to determine how. But the general consensus on Jay Leno is that he is not a funny man. "Lowest common denominator," "bland," "robotic." Comedians hate Jay Leno. The internet hates Jay Leno. Why?

Jay Leno has talent. Once upon a time he was one of the hottest, most talented comedians in the business. It's hard to believe, but it's true. Forget his current persona. Forget what you saw on The Tonight Show and The Jay Leno Show. Go to youtube and watch Leno's appearances on Late Night with David Letterman. His stuff is hysterical. Leno was hilarious. Then he got The Tonight Show, and he took all of that talent, wrapped it up in a towel, set it on fire, and dumped it in the Hudson River. Ask Patton Oswalt why he hates Leno. Wasted talent.

Leno steals bits, jokes. I have no evidence to support that. But it's a common accusation. And nothing will turn comics on you faster than stealing bits. Ask Howard Stern why he hates Leno. Stern will then talk non-stop for at least a week. Somewhere in there will be accusations of stealing jokes. Of stealing staff. Of being selfish. I don't know if it is true. I don't know if what any of the comedians that hate Jay Leno say is true. But they don't hate Letterman. They don't hate Conan. They didn't hate Carson. One guy goes off spouting about how much he hates someone, it's hard to have confidence in that one person. When a profession hates a guy, there might be something to it. Even if it is exaggerated. And I'm not saying it is. Either way.

If Leno was "funny," he would get away with a lot more than he does. Especially from the public. People will forgive almost anything if you are good at what you do. And I find it amazing that there isn't a single late night talk show host that respects the guy that hosted The Tonight Show for 17 years. When everyone of them (save Jimmy "just happy to have my job" Fallon) is lining up to take aim at him, with glee, something is up. You may say Letterman and Conan have personal reasons for hating Jay Leno. You wouldn't be wrong. But they aren't the only ones.

5. The Writer's Strike

Remember the writer's strike? Remember when all of the crew and staff of the late night talk shows were out of work for week after week after week? I'm not talking about celebrities with million dollar bank accounts. I'm talking about the guy that holds the cue cards. That works the camera. The electrician and the light guy. The regular folks with regular salaries who work to provide for their families. The writers go on strike and the networks effectively cancel the late night talk shows. They refuse to pay the salaries of the crew and staff of these shows because they aren't working. But these folks can't work because the writers are on strike. It's Christmas time.

What does David Letterman do? The "jerk" of late night? He decides to pay the salaries of his entire crew and staff, out of his own pocket, until they can go back to work. Immediately Conan O'Brien, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, everyone else with a show in the same predicament agrees to do the same. They pay their crew and their staff out of their own pocket. Some time passes, then everyone realizes...why isn't Jay Leno doing the same thing? The pressure builds. Leno announces he will pay the salaries of his crew and staff. Way to go Jay.

Letterman makes his own deal with the WGA to put his writers back to work. Craig Ferguson works for the same company, and Letterman gets his show the same deal. CBS announces their late night shows are going back on the air. NBC immediately announces that their late night shows will also go back on the air. Except the NBC shows don't have writers. Or do they?

Conan O'Brien goes on the air every night, completely sans writers. It is obvious. And he produces some of the finest comedy in late night history. The strike shows Conan did rank among the best he ever created. Spinning his wedding ring on his desk. Climbing through the studio's rafters. Hosting the show from behind the audience. Brilliance. Unwritten.

What does Jay Leno do? He writes his own jokes. Admits he writes his own jokes. And goes on the air with them. He says it's okay. The WGA says it isn't. Leno continues to write his own jokes. Comedy writers across the nation hate Jay Leno. Jay Leno is a scab.

6. Why I hate Jay Leno

I don't think he's funny. And he's screwed my two favorite television personalities out of their dream job. Two guys are are infinitely funnier. Infinitely more talented. And who care infinitely more about The Tonight Show. Isn't it a shame that the guy with the most respect for The Tonight Show is about to get fired for protecting it? Isn't it a shame that the only guy who gave a damn about Jimmy Fallon, like him or not, is about to get fired? NBC's new plan would have worked as well as their last one did. Jimmy Fallon and even Carson "Pluto" Daly can thank Conan O'Brien for having a job. How much does Jay Leno care about The Tonight Show? He's shown how much he cares about it. How much does Jay Leno care about Conan O'Brien? He's shown how much he cares about him. How much does Jay Leno care about Late Night? He's shown how much he cares about it. How much does Jay Leno care about Jimmy Fallon? He's shown how much he cares about him. How much does Jay Leno care about Carson Daly? He's shown how much he cares about him. How much does Jay Leno care about the television creative community? The writers, the actors, the directors, the crew guys; everyone who was working on a show at 10pm on NBC? He shown how much he cares about them. How much does Jay Leno care about NBC affiliates, local stations, and regional news? He's shown how much he cares about them. How much does Jay Leno care about Jay Leno? He's show how much he cares about him. But by all means, let's fire the guy, who at the very least pretended, to give a shit.

[russ69]

The whole Jay Walking thing ,,,,,,,,,,, were stolen from Howard Stern.

Oh, heck I'm going to date myself here, I think the "man on the street" came from Steve Allen, he was the host of the Tonight Show before Jack Parr and Johnny Carson. At any rate, TV is a tough business, if getting 45 mil to get fired is considered tough and I'm obviously a fan of Leno. I may not know him as well as I think I do but he is very well liked in the motorcycle community, and we don't take kindly to posers or celebrity wannabes (I can name a few). Like I said he's always been nice to me and everybody I've seen him with, I'd hate to think he's really a conniving son of a gun and he's just been fooling us bike/car guys for the last 25 years.

Thanx, Russ

[colterphoto1]

Conan = funny

Jay = not so much

nuff said

[lucky5115]

Both are idiots! Pay me $50 mill a year and I'll be glad to take over

ronnie

[tom67]

Assuming it is all true, and I doubt that, you left out one key fact......Network executives, and not the performers like Jay make the decisions concerning who gets the job. You infer that all these decisions occur in a vacuum and are controlled by the intentions of a given performer....pretty hard to believe, considering the networks rely on ratings and other analytical tools to make decisions and not emotion.

[fini]

Both are idiots! Pay me $50 mill a year and I'll be glad to take over

ronnie

LOLOL!! You ARE entertaining!!

[Islander]

To get back to the posted topic, last night's Tonight Show, the last one, apparently, was pretty good, especially the calibre of the musical talent. Neil Young came out with an acoustic guitar and a harmonica and sang Long May You Run. For the final number, Conan introduced Will Ferrell, who was dressed as a Southern rocker and told Conan to strap on his axe.

Conan was handed a Les Paul and appeared to know how to use it, as the band started playing Free Bird. It sounded pretty good, then I noticed that to the left of Will was Billy Gibbons and Beck (Beck Hansen, not Jeff Beck).

Near the end of the number, Will started hitting a cowbell, because, well, you always need more cowbell. It was a really cool finish to a really good show.

[Rich_Guy]

I agree it was a great show last night, I had to watch when I heard Neil Young was going to be on and that was a great solo version of Long May You Run.

The Free Bird jam was good also, but it still needed more cowbell.

[seti]

Good write up tigerwoodkhorns. When I was younger I watched late night almost every night. When Leno took over for Carson I switched to Letterman because Leno bored me. Letterman and Conan are much better hosts. It will be interesting to watch the NBC spoiled Leno after this dibacle. Leno's behavior is like a spoiled child who realizes that he traded his favorite toy and has to send his mommy to get it back.

[Islander]

Jay did point out that he's been fired twice by the network in this juggling of shows, once off The Tonight Show and now off The Jay Leno Show. Jay, Conan, David and the rest may be big names, but they're still just employees and don't get to set network plans and policies.

The whole fiasco started six years ago when the network promised The Tonight Show to Conan "in five years' time". It was an odd thing to do, and Jay was not at all happy at being given a long-term layoff notice from a show that was performing perfectly well. I don't see anyone to blame here other than the network. Jay and Conan have both given their best efforts to make their assignments work, but the audience didn't watch as much as was hoped.

Conan grumbled about only getting seven months to build his audience, but he was going into an established show in an established timeslot, while Jay was starting a new show at a new time and got barely three months before the network pulled the plug.

Conan did earn my respect for holding out for a good settlement for his staff of 200, even if $32M or so for him alone and $13M or so for all 200 of those folks who helped make him a success seems a bit lop-sided, but I guess that's big-time TV for you.

[picky]

I'll miss Triumph the Insult Comic Dog, most of all!

No more, "For me to POOP ON"!

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Good write up tigerwoodkhorns. When I was younger I watched late night almost every night. When Leno took over for Carson I switched to Letterman because Leno bored me. Letterman and Conan are much better hosts. It will be interesting to watch the NBC spoiled Leno after this dibacle. Leno's behavior is like a spoiled child who realizes that he traded his favorite toy and has to send his mommy to get it back.

I didn't do the write up. See my post, I took it from a forum and pasted it here.

[russ69]

Did anybody see Jay on Oprah?

Thanx, Russ

[tigerwoodKhorns]

No offense Russ, but I cannot think of two people that I would like to see less.

I will take a stab, she asked the hard question, did Jay force Conan out, Leno lied and said no, then they both nodded in agreement and told each other how great they are, and all of the minless drone housewives now have Oprah's permission to watch the show so it will do well. I bet it was not staged at all either.

Sorry, but fluff interviews are an insult. Of course, I am assuming that it was fluff, maybe Oprah dug deep and really nailed Leno and make him squirm and they kept hitting all of the tough topics without letting anyone off easy, kind of like 60 minutes in the 1970's.

This whole thing has peaked my interest in talk shows, I will watch Conan when he gets another show.

[russ69]

I have never watched Oprah before, I was impressed. It was a very good interview, she made Jay squirm a couple of times. There is also a 45 minute after show discussion on her website. I have to say Oprah did a seriously good job. I don't align with Oprah's politics but I would watch her again (after 25 years, I'm just now tuning in).

Anyway, the general consensus didn't change, Jay doesn't have much support. The only thing I did learn that I didn't know was that Conan's viewership had dropped more than 50%, so he wasn't going to keep that show anyway. the affiliate stations were losing too much money.

Thanx, Russ

[sunburnwilly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joXYj2IoKXs

[cjgeraci]

Anyway, the general consensus didn't change, Jay doesn't have much support. The only thing I did learn that I didn't know was that Conan's viewership had dropped more than 50%, so he wasn't going to keep that show anyway. the affiliate stations were losing too much money.

Of course, Jay does not have much public support. He may have come across as a nice guy to you at lunch, but what he has done (now twice) is simply not honorable now matter how that you slice it. And as I have read elsewhere, apparently his actions are not appreciated by his colleagues in the business. NBC shares some of the blame, but sometimes the public gets it right - and recognizes an individual's role in a debacle, despite his protestations of innocence on Oprah.

I disagree that based on Conan's numbers at the seven month mark that it was a foregone conclusion that he was not going to keep the Tonight Show, absent NBC idiocy and Jay's meddling. The reports when all of this broke indicated that the affiliate stations were the most concerned about Jay's poor numbers at 10 p.m. EST due to the detrimental effect on the lead-ins to local news telecasts, and that was the motivation for the behind-scenes revolt to NBC brass.

Also remember just how bad Leno's ratings were early on, especially in 1993 and 1994 when he first went up against Letterman (Leno turned the tide in July 1995 starting with the "infamous" Hugh Grant interview and after NBC unveiled a new set putting him closer to the audience). NBC gave Leno three years to turn things around. Bringing up Conan's ratings after seven months is just an attempt to deflect blame on Conan, who deserves none.

Oh well, nothing else matters so long as Jay is happy................

Maybe he will celebrate by purchasing another ten vintage musclecars to add to his collection.

[jacksonbart]

He will be back and its about time.

[Bill H.]

He will be back and its about time.

Crap-Tastic !............