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Did PWK Intend For Klipsch Speakers To Be Equalized ?


ka7niq

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Ka7: Look around for an old SAE 2800 parametric. While I try to avoid EQ, per se; the final tweaks on the man cave (designed, treated, etc. with help from former forum member MAS) still has/had a couple of "anomalies". Using a 2800, very carefully.... and with very little adjustment except where the RTA said so, I was able to eliminate almost all unwanted reflections, resonance, etc. Key is to use an EQ sparingly, and try to look at the room design and what the sound does in it first.

Apart from that no bass, treble, mid, etc on the amps. Sound stage depth and width is only done via spl adjustments on each amp that powers each pair. Works well, very well.

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Very interesting thread! I have no way of knowing for certain, but the fact that PWK put no user-adjustable controls on his speakers suggests that he thought it was his job to get the speaker correct and the user's job to get appropriate electronics and adjust speaker placement and the room for best results. I am interested to hear that Mark Levinson had Klipschorns! What was the year when your meeting took place? As a Quad fancier, I have heard of an HQD system Mark Levinson put together using a stacked pair of Quad 57s, with an additional tweeter and a pair of 18" subs.

I met Mark Levinson back in the early 80's. I boiught a new Corvette in 1984, the year they changed body styles.Hartley,Quad,Decca, sounds like a Law Firm ? The HQD systems I have heard sound very good, as Quad 57's do, in the spot. The Decca Ribbon Tweeter adds air and detail, and the Hartley Woofer adds bass.

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Yes, he did intend his speaker to be equilalzed.

Turning this in to a "EQ" Thread. To state you are a "no EQ Guy" with the knowledge that the entire music industry uses EQs it a use at your own risk choice..

There is the RIAA, X-Curve, Academy Curve, etc.. Google it. Equalization is a common and needed tool in all types of audio reproduction.

The most popular curve is the "Smile" curve. Google it. but take the human audio spectrum and draw a curve from high on the 20Hz side dip to the middle band and then curve back up to 20KHz. Thus the "Smile" Some speakers have it built in and that is why they may say no eq needed.

You think those pre 1980's recordings were FLAT? heck no. With time and technology, recording artist are producing more flatter music, but they are also killing dynamic range ( but that is a whole topic for another thread--oh and google it)

My understanding- for today's playback you want to make your system "pink noise" flat at the listening position. That include use of Acoustic eq or Room treatment AND electronic EQ. So when you play your music back the only way the audio spectrum is changed is thru the music that you're playing. in other words the music dictates the eq and experience. Just like the professionals in the sound booth intended ( and how they heard it).

Now, most enthusiast have to compete with Auto, Living space, spouse, kids, pets, and other factors in order to achieve playback, do you really think EQ is the issue? The reality is most are listening to compressed music in cars ( who sounds systems are less than ideal ) and a small percentage really know what there are doing. Think about it, it was possible to gather all the Klipsch users in one spot and compare to the rest of the populus, then take away the ones who don't know about proper set-up and playback, and see what you get...

I see you are from Massachuttes ? It is said EQ killed the Kennedys, LOL I just put a bid in on an equalizer with remote control. I am lazy ...

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I also have a SAE 180 Parametric Eq. but I have never used it. (yet)

SAE180.jpg

Dennie

I have a Tascam PE 40 I was gonna use on My subs, I think a graphic woud be easier to use for a EQ Beginner like me ?

I think you may be right. I put it in the chain one time and I started sweating, shaking, got dizzy and took it back out of the chain! [:S]

Dennie

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TASCAM PE? It's a four channel designed for mixing, but you can try it; if you fiddle around you might be surprised at what a PE vs graphic can do. See if Dennie will lend you his 180!!! LOL!!

Yep, that it is, it has 4 channels. I bought it for a time when I would EQ my subs, figuredI would use 2 channels on the two subs, 2 channels on the fronts.

My Yamaha RX V1 has EQ that only works on center channel and surrounds.

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I also have a SAE 180 Parametric Eq. but I have never used it. (yet)

SAE180.jpg

Dennie

I have a Tascam PE 40 I was gonna use on My subs, I think a graphic woud be easier to use for a EQ Beginner like me ?

I think you may be right. I put it in the chain one time and I started sweating, shaking, got dizzy and took it back out of the chain! Tongue Tied

Dennie

Does it say Los Angles, California Made in USA on the back of that thing ?

Scientific Audio Electronics - DBA as SAE Jim Bongiorno used to work there before his GAS and Sumo days.

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I also have a SAE 180 Parametric Eq. but I have never used it. (yet)

SAE180.jpg

Dennie

I have a Tascam PE 40 I was gonna use on My subs, I think a graphic woud be easier to use for a EQ Beginner like me ?

I think you may be right. I put it in the chain one time and I started sweating, shaking, got dizzy and took it back out of the chain! Tongue Tied

Dennie

Does it say Los Angles, California Made in USA on the back of that thing ?

Scientific Audio Electronics - DBA as SAE Jim Bongiorno used to work there before his GAS and Sumo days.

Yes it does!

Dennie

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I would have loved to hear that Quad system. My friend has a pair of 57's and I would consider it a reference speaker requiring little EQ or none. Back to the EQ, don't the sound engineers remix and EQ the original recording based on their enterpretation? Your ears may be different and require you to increase the bass or reduce the mids, hence the requirement for an EQ. I had one in my system for over 20 years until ALK came up with the multi-tap auto transformer in his crossovers. Yes

I think this brings up the "production end" vs. the "user end" debate that comes in other areas of audio too. Tone controls on speakers and preamps that used to be the norm have disappeared for the most part, probably because it is both cheaper to eliminate them and because they could degrade the signal. However the production end EQs all the time, as you noted. Tone controls allow users to compensate somewhat for tastes, room acoustics and the quality of sources. My music library certainly has numerous examples of recordings that are lucid and natural as well as many that are so screwed up by EQing that they are nearly unlistenable. It is interesting that there seem to be so many tone-deaf recording engineers!

Another example is wire. On the one hand, people insist on mega-buck interconnects and speaker wire being important. In those instances, I wonder whether the weakest link in the wiring system as a whole will be the highest quality you will get. So what difference does it make if you have $10,000 interconnects if your preamp or speaker crossover uses $10.00/100 ft hook-up wire? The answer, of course, will be that the expensive interconnects do change the sonics and are, therefore, still important.

More ideas to think about, more audio gear to try....

George

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I would have loved to hear that Quad system. My friend has a pair of 57's and I would consider it a reference speaker requiring little EQ or none. Back to the EQ, don't the sound engineers remix and EQ the original recording based on their enterpretation? Your ears may be different and require you to increase the bass or reduce the mids, hence the requirement for an EQ. I had one in my system for over 20 years until ALK came up with the multi-tap auto transformer in his crossovers. Yes

I think this brings up the "production end" vs. the "user end" debate that comes in other areas of audio too. Tone controls on speakers and preamps that used to be the norm have disappeared for the most part, probably because it is both cheaper to eliminate them and because they could degrade the signal. However the production end EQs all the time, as you noted. Tone controls allow users to compensate somewhat for tastes, room acoustics and the quality of sources. My music library certainly has numerous examples of recordings that are lucid and natural as well as many that are so screwed up by EQing that they are nearly unlistenable. It is interesting that there seem to be so many tone-deaf recording engineers! Another example is wire. On the one hand, people insist on mega-buck interconnects and speaker wire being important. In those instances, I wonder whether the weakest link in the wiring system as a whole will be the highest quality you will get. So what difference does it make if you have $10,000 interconnects if your preamp or speaker crossover uses $10.00/100 ft hook-up wire? The answer, of course, will be that the expensive interconnects do change the sonics and are, therefore, still important. More ideas to think about, more audio gear to try.... George

George, FYI, I once heard Model 19's driven by Conrad Johnson PV 2 Preamp and M 52 CJ amp, I think it was that amp, anyway, it sounded splendid!

That OLD CJ stuff was very tubey, and combined with the slight foreward sound of the Altecs, a good match.

The SP 8 is not the most tubey sounding preamp, the older SP 3's were more tubey.

If you EVER run across an old CJ tube preamp cheap, look at it.

The old Audible Illusions mini mites, and the Uranus were tubey too.

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Yeah, I saw that too!

Maybe one of our old time klipsch guys can chime in ? You know, the ones with the dope from hope notes all over their house ?

I cant place my Cornwalls in corners, got big subs already there that are only made to go in corners.

Cant get them right against back wall either.

Have to run them about a foot off rear wall.

I was told Cornwalls have a dip around 600 k due to woofer/floor interface ?

Maybe some EQ will make it "mo better" ?

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Dips are not as noticeable as peaks.

Thats what Floyd Toole said, oh, BTW Maron, I picked up some used Tannoy D 50's with 8 inch dual concentrics.

VERY nice sounding speakers with incredible imaging, not a lot of bass, better for smaller rooms.

Haven't even bi wired them yet, just using the jumpers.

These sound like Music, Instruments and voices just sound right, Google them.

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Dennie, I had one of those way back when, it scared me, no owners manual, and I barked a woofer accidentally by not realizing WTF I was doing !

Some idiot just outbid me on a Pioneer EQ w/remote control.

Guess he really wanted it ?

I think I can EQ the Cornwalls with a simple EQ.

The problem I have with them is on male voice, it sounds a tad washed out, vs warm and commanding like it is on both the B&W 801's, the JBL S 412 P's, and the little Tannoy D 50's.

Female voice is fine, and with the Crites Titanium Diapraghms, it is not bright.

WishI could find a woofer of a tad more efficiency that would work in the cornwall 2's, LOL

That would create me an automatic warmth curve, he he.

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Did PWK Intend For Klipsch Speakers To Be Equalized?

Not in the 50's, there really weren't any consumer type equalizers back then. My first experience was with the SAE equalizers in the 70's, I used it for a little while but I thought it added some grain on the top end so I removed it from my chain.

Thanx, Russ

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