End Of an ERA.

[Marvel]

The best tools were the old Rockwell Delta and Milwaukee built like a brick outhouse.

Mmm... yeah! I've got a superb ol' Unisaw, an even older Delta Jointer, and a vintage Delta drillpress. Yep, nothin' like 'em. I think I'll go fire up the tablesaw just to hear her rip...

You might as well, you're always cuttin' up.

[TheEAR]

Germerikan,

Good post and the sad truth,america and went down as the greedy business owners wanted to fill their pockets very fast.They gave the other side tools and know how to beat and keep growing while america fell on its face.See no war was needed to overcome this obstacle!

The clowns will say "buy it is cheaper" , yes it is ...how much cheaper? Slightly less expensive and you get GARBAGE you have to replace often and in the end PAY MORE. Plus jobs(wealth of a nation) has drifted away !!! How much dumber can the savage capitalists get? Not much ,their blind fanatical drive only matched by their greed for profit at all costs.

Yes it is cheaper for those who still have jobs, for the ones who lost jobs it is out of reach. Savage capitalism is like a cancer that will eat its way thru a great nation and leave it in debt, with countless families who used to work on the street or close. Losing even their homes! Proof is today, and it is ugly, yes lets close our eyes and pretend it is all a bad dream.

A banking system that rewards crooks and directors who asign their own huge bonuses for making bad decisions! A system that rewards incompetence and sub par performance cannot work. It is doomed to fail and in a grand way. You can ignore it all all you want, it will not ignore YOU.

So what it will be the blue pill or the red pill Alice?.

[JJkizak]

I forgot to mention that I can still get Delta parts for my 1947 Delta shaper. I don't know who makes them however.

JJK

[germerikan]

Thanks EAR,

I also forgot to tell about the directors of the bank in Hamburg, 2 got fired but left with BIG "seperation payments" I think in the lower millions.

My only point was America is not the only country with these problems. I see in 5 years or so the economic big guys could be India and China, cheap labor no Unions and a work force who are happy to be getting a dollar an hour. If you want to stay in the market now a days you have to produce big and cheap, no "normal" country like USA or Germany can do this anymore, the question is why not? Is it our own greed?

I find Klipsch did it right, if you want quality do it at home. I would think they are producing less but at a much higher turnover thus they can pay their workforce properly. The lesser quality speakers (which I own, F3´s) are outsourced to be produced cheap so everyone can get them.

Yes the blue pill or the red pill, decisions decisions!!!

[SteelerFan]

Corporate Greed is killing off the middle class in America.

Yup.[]

[tigerwoodKhorns]

What do you do at this point? Are we not well past the point of no return?

Can we put up with huge tarriffs to level the field and corresponding higher prices, now, when our economy is hanging by a thread? I'm sure that there is a way for 275 million people to be productive and relatively self sufficient, but the pain involved in getting there will never be acceptable to this ipod and video on demand nation. Everyone is appauled by working conditions elsewhere but demand sweat shop prices for goods.

Plus, the powers that be will never let their short term gravy train end for long term benefits. We can't even get companies to admit that we are polluting the planet and producing irriversible long term problems.

Not that things were that much better back then, but ten years ago I had a sense of comfort in that we had a huge budget surplus, even though everyone was complaining about taxes. Think of what could be done with that right now, instead the worker bees were tossed a check for $300 and corporations were given the keys to the henhouse and here we are.

[Timmikid]

Exactly! We are no different either. Everybody wants the best product for the best price. The fact that we, being audionuts, will pay the price of a middleclass car for a set to play our records is... well deviant. Most consumers buy plastic crap and are happy with it. Supply versus demand. Competition is the base of kapitalism. That accounts for all kind of consumers, also the companies that consume work labour. If you want loyalty to laborers and fellow citizens, start with raising taxes big time, some would say. Striving for maximum profit is embedded in western society. The USA being the leader. This is not an attack, I love the USA, but every system and country has its disadvantage. And the Global economy can not be evaded anymore. Hey, I'm Dutch and I buy Klipsch and MCIntosh! and proud of it... Ofcourse I am also proud of my Dutch Philishave and... ehm The Dikes?

[ZAKO]

END of an ERA,,,, Now after all this hand wringing and knashing of teeth,,,, The largest buyer of JBL speakers has been the JAPANESE...Not the US,,, They love the speakers because,,,made in America ment excellent design and high quality,,,Now the JBL speakers will be made in MEXICO (and elsewhere),,, WILL the JAPANESE still hold the company in high..regard? China is in there back yard,,Will JAPAN accept Made in Mexico over Made in China JBL speakers..That rivalry still has scars.,,,,,,Now lets speculate,, Will JBL continue engineering and prototyping in California.??? Marantz has been around the world,,USA,,Japan,,Europe (phillips) now back to Design in US with manufacturing in Japan,,(Japanese manufacturing owned by Marantz US),,,Please speculate,,, Plus what will be the 10 year Klipsch Plan to compete.

[winchester21]

We are having to compete with countries where there is no EPA- no OHSA-no unions- nothing in the manner of rules we are forced to follow. So in 5 years when they poision the water and dump God knows what into the landfills- guess who will be cleaning up the mess??? The American taxpayers- count on it.

[dollar bill]

While it doesn't eliminate the pressures of the marketplace/competition, thankfully Klipsch Group Inc. is still a privately held company and they can continue to make their own decissions, as opposed to having stock holders to answer to.

They have a vested interest in the longevity and reputation of the company and while of course they want it to be profitable, aren't being held by gunpoint to make it all happen in a three month period.

If they continue doing what they do and play the long game,making and hoping superior products will rise again, then I think they will be fine.

If they go for the short term, cash in/sell out, they will be like so many other companies that only continue to use a name that used to mean quality, to market junk and rake in massive profits, before anyone realizes or cares.

G.E. R.C.A. Emerson Fischer and on and on, brands that while they may never have been the best, were made with some care and quality.

Anyone remember what a heirloom is?

Of course something that lasts a year, much less a lifetime is not profitable, nuch better to have it break, wear out or replaced with a new and "improved" format or model.

We the sheeple, have been programed and the few that see through it or try to fight it are dismissed.

http://www.storyofstuff.com/

[djk]

And for some balance:

[tigerwoodKhorns]

We are having to compete with countries where there is no EPA- no OHSA-no unions- nothing in the manner of rules we are forced to follow. So in 5 years when they poision the water and dump God knows what into the landfills- guess who will be cleaning up the mess??? The American taxpayers- count on it.

Well said.

On a different note but the same subject, I was shopping for a suite a few years ago and found some nice Armani suits for a really good price. Armani has "Black Label" "Collection" and "Mani" lines, the Mani being the "budget" line (for Armani, at least). The Mani suits still feel like you are wearing pajamas all day and are really nice high quality suits. Well, they were always made in Italy, all of the lines. Guess where they had started making the Mani suits? Yep, your Armani suite has a "Made in Mexico" label. Sorry but I stopped buying their Mani line. Superficial, yes, I know, but I'll just keep my older ones that were made in Italy, they seem to last forever anyway. Don't care if it was a good deal.

[germerikan]

One of my suppliers comes from Italy, near Milano. He told me the cloth industry has gotten hit real hard, the prices and now the quality cannot be beat out of China. He knows someone in the cloth industry for the high price cloth, like what Armani, Boss etc. uses and they are getting the same quality out of China for a song.

The butterfly beat its wings in China and we are starting to get the typhon.

[Coytee]

Heck, even Captain Ds gets their fish from the middle East now, we asked!

This brought back an interesting memory.

Back in 1976-1981 I worked at as the head cook at a Ponderosa Steak House (affectionally called The PonderGrossa [:|])

I was told that the beef they got was not USA beef. I always wondered about that until one day when I was flipping the steaks over, I saw a stamp on a sirlon. This stamp was perfectly centered on the cut and you could easily read "Australian Beef" or somthing simlar to that.

[Hifi jim]

This just in: China finds 170 more tons of tainted milk powder... like I stated earlier in this thread; I won't be eating ANYTHING that is produced in its entirety, or contains ingredients from China. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_china_tainted_milk

[twistedcrankcammer]

[+o(]

Heck, even Captain Ds gets their fish from the middle East now, we asked!

This brought back an interesting memory.

Back in 1976-1981 I worked at as the head cook at a Ponderosa Steak House (affectionally called The PonderGrossa )

I was told that the beef they got was not USA beef. I always wondered about that until one day when I was flipping the steaks over, I saw a stamp on a sirlon. This stamp was perfectly centered on the cut and you could easily read "Australian Beef" or somthing simlar to that.

Absolutely correct Richard.

They bring it over on ships, from Australia, unrefridgerated, when it arrives here at the docks it is rotted with mold growing on it.

Australian beef is range raised, so it is stringy and tough, it is also cheaper. After it arrives here, it is sent to a processing plant where the treat it with a liquid they call dinamite. The dinamite kills all of the mold and bad bacteria, and the rotting tenderizes the tough beef.

We do a similar process here with aged angus beef, but we use a certain strain that is not harmful, just like live yogurt strains, and we baste the beef with vinigar to prevent harmful flora from taking hold.

I told this story to a group of nursing students and one of the students said after her grandmother died, her grandfather had taken up eating 3 to 5 nites a week at Ponderosa. The manager told her grandfather it was not healthy to eat there that often, but had not elaborated why.

YUM YUM!! [+o(][+o(][+o(]

Roger

[Marvel]

They bring it over on ships, from Australia, unrefridgerated, when it arrives here at the docks it is rotted with mold growing on it.

Australian beef is range raised, so it is stringy and tough, it is also cheaper. After it arrives here, it is sent to a processing plant where the treat it with a liquid they call dinamite. The dinamite kills all of the mold and bad bacteria, and the rotting tenderizes the tough beef.

Hmmmm... all Australian beef for export follows strict legal guidlines.There are lots of regulations.

Cartons of meat are loaded
into refrigerated containers and transported to the port or airport
under strict temperature controlled conditions. To maintain the optimal
shelf life and quality of the beef and sheepmeat products during
transport, the temperature of chilled beef and sheepmeat should be
maintained at 0°C (±1°C) and below -10°C for frozen product.

Throughout transport to the country of destination, container
temperatures are regularly monitored. Corrective action is carried out
should temperatures fluctuate outside accepted limits.

As the largest exporter of beef in the world, I would guess they would have to stay on top of it. Especially since most of the European countries have stricterregulations than the US.

I told this story to a group of nursing students and one of the students said after her grandmother died, her grandfather had taken up eating 3 to 5 nites a week at Ponderosa. The manager told her grandfather it was not healthy to eat there that often, but had not elaborated why.

YUM YUM!!

Perhaps because we don't need that much red meat in our diet? Kinda like all the elderly who eat at the breakfast bar at Shoney's... all you can eat. We know that's healthy. [:|]

[twistedcrankcammer]

They bring it over on ships, from Australia, unrefridgerated, when it arrives here at the docks it is rotted with mold growing on it.

Australian beef is range raised, so it is stringy and tough, it is also cheaper. After it arrives here, it is sent to a processing plant where the treat it with a liquid they call dinamite. The dinamite kills all of the mold and bad bacteria, and the rotting tenderizes the tough beef.

Hmmmm... all Australian beef for export follows strict legal guidlines.There are lots of regulations.

Cartons of meat are loaded into refrigerated containers and transported to the port or airport under strict temperature controlled conditions. To maintain the optimal shelf life and quality of the beef and sheepmeat products during transport, the temperature of chilled beef and sheepmeat should be maintained at 0°C (±1°C) and below -10°C for frozen product.

Throughout transport to the country of destination, container temperatures are regularly monitored. Corrective action is carried out should temperatures fluctuate outside accepted limits.

As the largest exporter of beef in the world, I would guess they would have to stay on top of it. Especially since most of the European countries have stricterregulations than the US.

I told this story to a group of nursing students and one of the students said after her grandmother died, her grandfather had taken up eating 3 to 5 nites a week at Ponderosa. The manager told her grandfather it was not healthy to eat there that often, but had not elaborated why.

YUM YUM!!

Perhaps because we don't need that much red meat in our diet? Kinda like all the elderly who eat at the breakfast bar at Shoney's... all you can eat. We know that's healthy.

Not saying this is what is presently done, but I am saying this is exactly what used to be done. I used to work in a food warehouse for 5 years, a couple of our drivers used to pick up that meat and drive it for processing.

Roger

[djk]

In 2007 BPI developed the now widly used ammonia process, so you McD and BK burgers are now ammonia processed.

http://www.sciencebuzz.org/buzz-tags/bpi-inc

[Marvel]

I just finished some tuna steaks from Thailand...processed with carbon monoxide to preserve the color.