Moderators Youthman Posted March 31, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 31, 2010 Do people seriously spend that much money on speaker wires and cables (Nordost Odin)? Those things are as much as an f'ing car!!!!! Holy sh*t never seen anything like that before. lol Answer is yes. When I worked at Circuit City (many years ago), we went to a training from Monster Cable. They were "educating" us why their cables were better than what most people had in their home. One cable they brought out was a pair of Speaker Cables about 1/2 inch thick. I believe they were something like $700/pair. They asked us if we thought there was $650.00 of difference between those cables and their lower end cables. Their answer was, "No but we know there are some people that will spend it so we make them." Sad, but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr311 Posted March 31, 2010 Author Share Posted March 31, 2010 Wow that's just messed up Youthman, that they would do that just because people are dumb enough to spend that much on a cable that basically is no better than a $50 one. I guess a sucker is born every minute as they say...but still sad that companies take advantage of those guys/gals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaskar Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 ...but still sad that companies take advantage of those guys/gals Mbr311 Its taking advantage in a good way. People have a choice...if they can spend $700.00 on wire, im glad they got it like that, spend it. Im glad companies can charge what they want for a product, regardless of what it cost them to make or puchase it. That is what help make the USA as we" knew it... I know I spent too much on junk before, it was my ignorance that cost me thank god for the internet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokarz Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Wow that's just messed up Youthman, that they would do that just because people are dumb enough to spend that much on a cable that basically is no better than a $50 one. I guess a sucker is born every minute as they say...but still sad that companies take advantage of those guys/gals well, i wouldn't say the company is taking advantage of these folks, they're simply responding to demands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Do people seriously spend that much money on speaker wires and cables (Nordost Odin)? Those things are as much as an f'ing car!!!!! Holy sh*t never seen anything like that before. lol Yes, this guy says he spent 500 bucks on "speaker cable" SMH !! http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/133526.aspx If you looked at the link I posted, the speaker wires are $20,000.00 for a 3 ft pair then $3,000.00 more for each additional 1 1/2 ft. They have a power cord for $26,000.00 and other cables priced similarly. http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/ultimate-gear/nordost_odin_cables Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 31, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 31, 2010 well, i wouldn't say the company is taking advantage of these folks, they're simply responding to demands. Yeah, good ole fashioned demand and marketing. Some people will spend oodles of money to gain a fraction of improvement. At some point, the law of diminsihing return kicks in. From there on, it's all slight improvements at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr311 Posted March 31, 2010 Author Share Posted March 31, 2010 Just to verify, 12 or 14 guage from Monoprice is a good deal, 100ft. for $33 shipped can't beat that. Is there any discernable difference between the 12 and 14 guage that I'll be running to my surrounds? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted March 31, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 31, 2010 Is there any discernable difference between the 12 and 14 guage that I'll be running to my surrounds? It's not an issue of hearing a difference unless you are running really long distances. Check the link to the chart that I provided earlier to see what gauge wire you need to get for surrounds. For most applications, 12 or 14 gauge will work great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 i hope no one was thinking i was attacking them. i have a power cable test out there to help me show people that different types of wire or plated materials in fact does alter the sound. is it a "OMG" sound change, no, but a change. depending on your gear + your room + your ears, the drastic change can be greater or lower. as far as my hearing goes, when you do an actual hearing test, i score 0-5. normal hearing is 25-30. hearing loss is around 40-50. i am very fortunate that i work around airplanes and still have that hearing. my last hearing test was little less than a year ago, and i have had a test done once a year (it's mandatory). here are some things i have heard (and have other people hear in my system too) using my power cable test kit. gold alters the sound to warm. silver alters the sound to bold or bright (sometimes harsh) tin plated copper sounds very very similar (pretty much identical) as 3N (maybe 4N not quite sure) silver plated. the higher the purity of copper 3N to 5N each stage has a slightly warmer sound. more insulation on a wire dampens the highs just a touch, depending on the insulator, it will determine the final sound. little to no insulation gives a "natural" or "natural" sound. as far as spending $30 a foot for wire, IMHO, is crazy. i am simply saying the quality and value is too great to not spend .25 cents a foot. (250' roll of monoprice wire). there are things out there that are true regardless if you believe it or can hear it. it simply means you don't need to waist your money if you can't hear the difference. most of the products that get the "snake oil" rap are for 2ch and not HT. i can make a very good power cable for around $60 and i will guarantee that it will rival any other power cord on the market. will it be the best, no, worst, no, but it will sound good and you will most likely hear the difference it makes. as it stands now, the same power cords, people are hearing subtle, no, and clear changes. it's not like the power cord is changing, it's the user that determines the differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Yep, 14 or 12 gauge will be fine for 99+% of the runs out there. For likely half of the runs, 16 gauge would be fine and no, you would not be able to hear the difference between 14 or 12 gauge in your HT setup. If you were running 200 foot long speaker cables, you might want to step up to 10 gauge but in real world use, you will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 forgot to add. what i was saying about home depot/ Lowe's wasn't a dig either. i was simply saying if someone wanted to buy the solid or stranded wire by that manufacture, it is all 3N. i purchased a small amount to see if i could make a star quad power cable. i need solid core wire to make that type of cable. i didn't care what it was made of, i just wanted to know. i contacted them and asked just for my knowledge. the other point being is i paid .29 a foot for 12awg solid core 3N copper when you can go to monoprice and pay .25 for 4N copper. i was just saying that i thought that wasn't a good value to get any of that type of wire from there. i am sorry if anyone thought i was attacking them, but these are things i have actually heard and am not regurgitating information i read from some random site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 here are some things i have heard (and have other people hear in my system too) using my power cable test kit. gold alters the sound to warm. silver alters the sound to bold or bright (sometimes harsh) tin plated copper sounds very very similar (pretty much identical) as 3N (maybe 4N not quite sure) silver plated. the higher the purity of copper 3N to 5N each stage has a slightly warmer sound. more insulation on a wire dampens the highs just a touch, depending on the insulator, it will determine the final sound. little to no insulation gives a "natural" or "natural" sound. As the results above seem to tie in the "color" of the wire with the sound it produces such as Gold (yellow) = warm and Silver = cold, would these same people hear my lead cables as HEAVY sounding? It is in the mind, IMHO, that the differences come into play. You hear what you are expecting to hear because in reality, an electron is an electron regardless if it has passed through gold, silver, copper or lead. This is even more true with power cords. Think about this (though I suppose there will be an arguement here also) will your car run better on Texaco or Mobile gasoline if they both have the same energy and octane rating? Energy is energy, electric power is no different. If you have the $$$$$$$$$$$$ to spend and you THINK you hear a difference, spend your money any way you wish and more "power" to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 here are some things i have heard (and have other people hear in my system too) using my power cable test kit. gold alters the sound to warm. silver alters the sound to bold or bright (sometimes harsh) tin plated copper sounds very very similar (pretty much identical) as 3N (maybe 4N not quite sure) silver plated. the higher the purity of copper 3N to 5N each stage has a slightly warmer sound. more insulation on a wire dampens the highs just a touch, depending on the insulator, it will determine the final sound. little to no insulation gives a "natural" or "natural" sound. As the results above seem to tie in the "color" of the wire with the sound it produces such as Gold (yellow) = warm and Silver = cold, would these same people hear my lead cables as HEAVY sounding? It is in the mind, IMHO, that the differences come into play. You hear what you are expecting to hear because in reality, an electron is an electron regardless if it has passed through gold, silver, copper or lead. This is even more true with power cords. Think about this (though I suppose there will be an arguement here also) will your car run better on Texaco or Mobile gasoline if they both have the same energy and octane rating? Energy is energy, electric power is no different. If you have the $$$$$$$$$$$$ to spend and you THINK you hear a difference, spend your money any way you wish and more "power" to you. okay, if that is true, then why did 5 different people hear differences when they couldn't see or know what i was doing? i was sitting behind my ET center and plugging and replugging in power cords. i didn't tell them which ones, in what order. i even would unplug one and replug it in just to make sure. no one saw what i was doing. it was completely blind. i have to ask you this, have you done anything like this or are you assuming you are right? when i started this whole power cord product, i knew for a fact that wire or a plating couldn't alter sound. i wanted custom power cords because i wanted specific lengths. i didn't care one bit about what was used or what name it carried. i wanted all my wire runs to be neat. i have a pic of the back of my ET center on here somewhere to illustrate what i mean. i used regular 3N tin plated twisted wire and i found some connectors that were cheap enough for me to buy. it was better than going to Lowe's and getting Hubble connectors. i knew for a fact that changing out a power cord couldn't change anything. i even believe some of the things you were saying. i am an aircraft electrician, i have been around wires and such for a long time, i KNEW i was right. well the day came and i made my cables. just for fun i made two identical lengths but used a 079 and 037 connector. i couldn't believe that i could hear a difference between those and stock. i also couldn't believe i could hear the difference between the two. i called a fellow klipsch buddy over (Falcon20x) and did a blind test for him. before he came over he knew for a fact they wouldn't make a difference. after we were done, he was amazed he could hear the difference. he asked a buddy of his to come down and do the test. (wescott, fellow klipsch member). the test was done with those 2 and both wives. all 4 could hear a difference. falcon's wife could pick it out as soon as she heard one note of the cd. yeah, i was a little impressed. so if what you are saying is true, how is all this possible? we all imagined it together? or could it be that despite what you know or believe simple changes like this will make a difference. so i ask you a direct question, "Have you done the same tests, purchased the wire and connectors, or are you assuming you are correct?" if you haven't then please understand this, you are wrong. i don't know the reasons you are wrong or the correct definitions, but in the end you are wrong. i am not trying to sound mean or cocky or anything like that. i have bought the connectors and wire. i went through a lot of trouble and money to make a free power cable test kit so anyone can use it and see if they can hear differences. i am not saying everyone will hear the same thing or even get the same results. depending on your gear and room, you will get different end results. i have already heard back from most of the people who have used them. no one so far has said the same thing. i am not trying to change your OPINION, but i know for a FACT these cables alter sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr311 Posted April 1, 2010 Author Share Posted April 1, 2010 It's not an issue of hearing a difference unless you are running really long distances. Check the link to the chart that I provided earlier to see what gauge wire you need to get for surrounds. For most applications, 12 or 14 gauge will work great. Ok but I'm a bit confused looking at the chart. When looking at the specs for the S-1s it says normal impedence is 8ohms. So looking at your chart, if I go to 8ohms, it says I will need 16 guage wire because I'll be running about 50 feet of wire. Am I interpreting this correctly? Thanks and sorry for being such a noob [:$] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Personally i always go for the next heavier gauge wire than recommended but 16 gauge will get you by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr311 Posted April 1, 2010 Author Share Posted April 1, 2010 Personally i always go for the next heavier gauge wire than recommended but 16 gauge will get you by. I was actually going to buy 14 guage wire, so that would fit the bill. Just need to make sure I'm interpreting the chart he gave me right so I know I'm using the right guage wire. This is what I plan on buying, and its great that its $17 for 100ft. and $39 for 250ft. much less expensive than 12 guage so I can buy 250ft w/out feeling bad and probably upgrade all my speaker wires. http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023902&p_id=2820&seq=1&format=2Would 14 guage also be fine for my mains and center, or do I need to get an even bigger guage for that? If I do then I won't wate my money on 250ft I'll just buy 100ft. for the surrounds and if I need to upgrade to a bigger guage on my mains and center I can do that at a later time. Sorry again for the noob questions just want to make sure I'm making the right purchases here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 If you are running the wires through the wall that will work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokarz Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 i've been running 16 gauge wire, but recently bought 100ft 12 gauge. couldn't be happier. the wire look almost twice as thick as the 16gauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr311 Posted April 1, 2010 Author Share Posted April 1, 2010 If you are running the wires through the wall that will work fine. Actually I won't be running wires through the wall most likely try to hide them along the baseboard as I run them. Should I be looking at a different wire? Is the one I linked especially for running through the wall? Sorry I am asking dumb questions I know. Is this what I should be getting: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023902&p_id=2791&seq=1&format=2 The only issue I have with that wire is that its clear, white would blend in so much better. Please let me know so I know what to order. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 If you are running the wires through the wall that will work fine. Actually I won't be running wires through the wall most likely try to hide them along the baseboard as I run them. Should I be looking at a different wire? Is the one I linked especially for running through the wall? Sorry I am asking dumb questions I know. Is this what I should be getting: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023902&p_id=2791&seq=1&format=2 The only issue I have with that wire is that its clear, white would blend in so much better. Please let me know so I know what to order. Thanks! The wires you chose are fine, wires run in the wall should be rated for in wall use, which these should be. If you are not running them in the wall it is just a matter of preference if you like the look of these or the clear ones better. The clear ones are not intended to be used in wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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