Review: Bob Crites Forte II and KG4 xover kit

[4tay]

I just completed mods on my 1993 forte II's and 1990 KG4's. Instead of mix and match, or guessing/experimenting what brand to use or flocking to the latest high end "magic" cap, I ordered Bob Crites kits.

For the forte II: I received the following:

- Schematic with written instructions, - 2- 1.5 uF Sonicaps, - 4 2uf ", 2 100pf non nonpolarized, 2 10uf NP.

The stock forte II caps are 110uf, 1.5uf, and a pair of 2uf.

Instructions read to use the 100 +10 in parallell (piggyback) I piggy back them and soldered them with Cardas quad eutectic solder.

After seeing the forte II circuit board I knew this would not be fun. It barely accomadates the stock smaller components. Bob stated that there have been at least 3 different cards used...I got a small card, lucky me. I had to run the 100+10 "stacked" because the stock electrolytic was a beer-can style. There was just no space...

I plugged one modded speaker in on the right and ran the left speaker stock. The result on the right, was obviously more open, cleaner and more detailed without any added harshness. I was rather pleased so far. Finishing the second, I played a variety of music, and listend to choral works. It was very appearent to me that these caps were neutral, and let more of the signal through than the tired, old stock caps. I was quite pleased...well worth the money. However, it was a pain because of the cramped board. I recommend a larger board.

KG4:

My 1990 KG-4's were a breeze by compare. The circuit board had adequate space to modify.

2 8uf Sonicaps, 2 3uf ", 2 33uf NP, and 2 .75 polyswitch

I completed each speaker in just a few minutes. Much like the Forte II mod, this mod extracted more from the speaker. It seemed to be more at ease at higher volumes and much more open and clean.

These kits were well worth it because this experiance has shown me the combination of caps just plain works! The old stock caps were obviously worn, but even new, I have no doubt sonicaps are superior. I have ordered titanium diaphragms to bring the performance up another notch...can't wait!

[wuzzzer]

Bob's kits definitely bring the performance back to factory specs and then some. The titanium diaphragms are an awesome product for the money.

[4tay]

Bob's kits definitely bring the performance back to factory specs and then some. The titanium diaphragms are an awesome product for the money.

It feels as though there should be a new term for modded KG4/Forte: "B.C. Heritage Reference series".

I really like ti that a few bucks in parts can make such a pronounced, real-world difference.

"Better parts= better speakers"

All due respect to Klipsch & associates....but:

1) I know that these mods are fully measurable, and can be heard by anyone with normal hearing. The before and after difference was like placing a notebook between you and one of the speakers tweeter and midrange. The difference was just that great.

2) While a good portion of the sound improvement is due to replacing worn out 20+ year old caps, I also believe that audio has a cleaner path through a cap with a tighter tolerance and almost nonexistant ESR. Again, this is measurable.

3) I also know that modern tweeters (titanium, etc) have a wider dynamic range and simply work better than phenolic tweeters. Klipsch reference tweeters sound much more detailed than my KG4's original tweeters.

4) While the forte II might have been considered "done" by 1986 standards, it can be vastly (and measurably) improved with 21st century components. (Again, the reference series proved that).

[4tay]

For the fearless among you: Here are photos of the stock forte II xover in my 1986 speakers. Incidentally, both boards used different sized attachment hardware inside for the binding posts.

1986 Forte II stock crossover. VERY cramped. Not much real estate compared to a Lascala card. Now imagine HUGE sonicaps and trying to fit them on it.

1990 KG4 crossover. "It's sooo cute!" and oddly enough, plenty of space for better parts.

[4tay]

I am listening to some Bach cello concertos. While this xover mod elevated the speakers past stock capabilities...the phenolic tweeter diaphragm definately sounds a little rolled off compared to the new titanium tractrix. I shall remedy that this week.

[jacksonbart]

Top Notch!!

[jerohm]

Did the Forte II actually EXISTS in 1986? I thought it was 1989. This is how I handled the issue

... and how do you attach multiple pictures?

[jerohm]

'cause I couldn't figure out how to post BOTH shots in a single post ... (do'h!)

[4tay]

Did the Forte II actually EXISTS in 1986? I thought it was 1989. This is how I handled the issue

... and how do you attach multiple pictures?

1. The identiplate reads: Forte II: 226393286 and 7, © 1986 klipsch & associates. Or was that the original year forte came out? I do not know how to decode the serial # to mfg year.

2. I use photobucket to host my photos and use the [ img ] [ /img ] html tags

3. I did the same thing to accomadate my caps that you are showing there--except I changed out that beer can 110uf with a 100 and 10 uf sonicap as well.

[jerohm]

I got my first pair from Tweeter in Jan '91 and I am pretty sure that they were only introduced about a year before that. When you were inside the cabinet to deal with the crossover, didn't you find a little card that charted/date stamped its various manufacturing steps? I am not sure how the serial# decoding works for the Forte II; my serial# are only 5 digits long!

[4tay]

I got my first pair from Tweeter in Jan '91 and I am pretty sure that they were only introduced about a year before that. When you were inside the cabinet to deal with the crossover, didn't you find a little card that charted/date stamped its various manufacturing steps? I am not sure how the serial# decoding works for the Forte II; my serial# are only 5 digits long!

I did find some globs of excess glue. It appears they are from 1993-1994...and the 1986 is the original forte copyright, not for forte II.

[rhing]

Nice review. I performed the same mods on my Forte IIs as well and love them more since. After a while, I decided to replace the stock speaker wire with some really nice Copper zip cord from Bob Crites. He cut them to length and crimped on the quick-connect connectors. I had to solder the other ends to the crossover PCBs which took some work. I also replaced the cheap stock binding posts with some Pomona 3770 Gold-plated Tellurium Copper 5-way binding posts. The improvements were subtle, but worth it with a greater level of transparency. I had a bunch of guys over for a get together and we tried a variety of tube amps with my upgraded Forte IIs and everyone was extremely impressed. One of the guys owns stock Forte Is and he just couldn't believe how much better my Forte IIs sounded. Now he's moving forward with upgrading his Forte Is with Bob Crites' kits. I think Forte IIs with the BEC upgrades (can't speak of the midrange diaphragms) are the best bargain speakers for all types of music reproduction.

[4tay]

In a more ideal situation, I'd love to build a 2 channel system around some "cornscalas" and a pushpull 300b. Right now, my main/Ht rig works best in the space I have with the forte II's. I think the bigger heritage speakers would be pushing it.

I am impressed that with a variety of (clean) front ends, the forte's are very balanced. I use a 15" powered sub (DIY) crossed over at 30hz. I am considering getting a TC sounds driver for it.

With the KG4's in the rear channel, the overall system sound is huge...like a theater. I have been experimenting with different surround modes. While I can playback in direct 2-channel, some stuff sounds very impressive in 5 channel.

I have some audioquest stranded OFC wire for the inside of the speakers.

Again, as far as the kit goes, I almost made what would have been an error for me and gone with paper in oil, or maybe another brand of caps. With my luck, I'd have ended up with a badly rolled off system, or something with the fingernails-on-a-chalkboard glare. The sonicaps are a great deal, since they aren't that expensive for what they do. I have never modded a Klipsch before this week, and I feel that getting something tried and true was an easy way to get excellent results.

I think the main point of me posting the review is to encourage people to mod/refresh the heritage line. It's kind of like "Overhaulin'" on Discovery. They take a beloved muscle car, add modern brakes, ignition, motorwork and suspension and the same beloved car becomes better than new.

[stormin]

1. The identiplate reads: Forte II: 226393286 and 7, © 1986 klipsch & associates. Or was that the original year forte came out? I do not know how to decode the serial # to mfg year.

That would be Thursday August 14th, 1993 (226th day of 1993)

[4tay]

1. The identiplate reads: Forte II: 226393286 and 7, © 1986 klipsch & associates. Or was that the original year forte came out? I do not know how to decode the serial # to mfg year.

That would be Thursday August 14th, 1993 (226th day of 1993)

That's the only number combo that makes sense! (93) Thanks for verifying that! []

[AmandaCarl]

Cool, looks great.

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[Cody_Mack]

3. I did the same thing to accomadate my caps that you are showing there--except I changed out that beer can 110uf with a 100 and 10 uf sonicap as well.

This relates to my question in my other thread. So if I am reading this right, the large caps are NP electrolytics but are of a higher end brand? The main reason you do this is because of cost and also space?

Any reason there are two caps to equal the 110uF? I am guessing that maybe the exact value is not available with just one?

Rick

[4tay]

This relates to my question in my other thread. So if I am reading this right, the large caps are NP electrolytics but are of a higher end brand? The main reason you do this is because of cost and also space?

Electrolytic caps have been banned from my speakers. The caps are sonicaps...not NOT electrolytics. I purchased the sonicaps regardless of space or cost. I could have probably gotten similar results with dayton caps, which cost much less, (metallized poly, not electrolytic) But I am done replacing electrolytics with electrolytics.

Any reason there are two caps to equal the 110uF? I am guessing that maybe the exact value is not available with just one?

That's the only reason. Sonicap gen 1 do not have a 110uf, so it was necessary to combine 2. This happens occasionally. I like to match the cap value exactly. I could probably have found something .01 to.05 different, but that would alter the crossover point.

[Cody_Mack]

Your original post talked about non-polarized, which I associated with electrolytics. You also said you ordered the BC kits, which from what I have noted uses the electrolytics. Sorry for the assumption.

Rick

[4tay]

Your original post talked about non-polarized, which I associated with electrolytics. You also said you ordered the BC kits, which from what I have noted uses the electrolytics. Sorry for the assumption. Rick

It was a safe assumption. I ended up omnitting the NP and using sonicaps all the way except for my center channel...it's not worth a $30 cap over the cost of a $12 for the tweeter (5uf)