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Describe Your Bass....


SWL

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How would you describe the sound of your bass?

I'm having an issue of my bass sounding "hard". It's tight, fast and hard hitting but has a "hard" sound to it. Anyone ever experience this?

I've lightened up on the subwoofers for two channel listening. Could it be that I just got so used to the slower, deep rumble of the subwoofer bass? This hard hitting bass will really rock but to my ears it's annoying......just doesn't seem right.

What could be the cause? Amp, the speakers x-over, preamp???

Thanks.

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My ***? [:|]

I think that's a little personal, don't you?

Ohhh, Bass! That's different. I need to stop speed reading the titles!! [:$]

Can you tell us what tracks you are using for an example?

I think that would help as an upright Bass can be soft and smooth, where a Bass Drum can be hard hitting, etc...

Dennie

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I go back and forth between no sub and using my sub for 2 channel listening. The Fortes put out bass that sounds tight but doesn't have the same impact that you can feel as with my sub. I guess hard would be a good word to use to describe Forte bass versus bass with my sub. It sounds good, but just doesn't feel as good.

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Scott,

I believe that is the sound difference between your old RF-7's with dual 10" woofers and your current KLF-30's with dual 12" woofers. Plus the fact that your feeding your woofers with 1000W of power would make them hard hitting.

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My bass for 2 channel is.......

Vintage system (Mac tube and Belles): Rounded, tuneful, full bodied. Not achieved, however, until I cleaned out all the gear with good clean sounding capacitors, and had the amps tweaked on a scope to match perfectly. THEN the mechanical "bottom/thunk" disappeared - especially with the high grade audio coupling caps.

Modern combo HT/2 channel system (VRDs/JM preamp/Cornwalls): Rounded, full bodied, tuneful, authoritative, always of proper weight.

For 2 channel - TUBES only, no subs. I am just not driven enough to get a sub for 2 channel that would do big Heritage justice, buit I am pleased in the overall with the 2 systems I have now in the bass department. NEVER a mechanical sound, always bass that sounds like music.

I do have "subwoofers" (technically "low frequency reinforcement") on the HT end of things by way of two JBL 4638 professional theater cabinets (each with two 15" woofers), balanced with a Behringer parametric EQ and powered by 265 watts of Crown SS. I got extremely lucky finding these from a forum tip here, getting them in JBL's "tent sale" selloff after the Northridge quake for $438 delivered for both cabs ($2500 worth of cabinets, woofers alone worth $400 each). These cabinets have a life on easy street, rarely breaking a sweat in my application, which helps to avoid most of the mechanical aspects of solid state subbage. Another trick I learned was to cut off all frequencies below 20 hz on this kit, which reduces excursion of the woofers. The HT does have a Krell preamp as well, which is a leader in audio when it comes to bass.

There are, of course, solid state amps that don't emphasize the problem....the class A (Nelson Pass), Krell, and Accuphase amplifiers are the antithesis of mechanical bass, all being liquid and quite authoritative.

On many conventional speakers and sub setups the mechanical sound is ever-present, and even more so on systems where the sub or bass is set too high. Using test tones and sound pressure level meters in testing and calibration of my subs was a very enlightening lesson on the proper application of subwoofers, which involves a better, more substantial sub than most think, but turned down more than most think by ear. Once a good sub system is set up properly, the mechanical sound should not be there. Lucky for me, however, I'm not traditionally as anal about that problem as I am the mids and treble, but having good gear makes it possible to not have to tolerate that mechanical bass issue any longer.

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Can you tell us what tracks you are using for an example?

Good point, this could make all the difference.

I normally turn the sub off for 2 ch, unless the recording is really bass shy and a few are. I think my bass sounds perfect to me on "most" recordings, what I think helps is it's a folded horn, and they seem to have the most accurate bass " to my ears ". The only thing about a folded horn is it has a different sound than the Forte's, Cornwall's, Rb-75's or any other direct radiator I have here.

Sometimes it is not as tight as other speakers which may turn off some people ? Honestly I don't know what is the " correct sound " but there is just something about big folded horns I like.

I have heard Klipschorns, which is folded horn bass but I like the sound of the mwm bass MUCH better especially with certain music. Sometimes I think there should be more bass considering there size but when I add a little bass it does not sound as realistic.

I know you asked about the tightness but that is really hard to describe for me because it seems to change with almost every recording and style of music. After I read what you asked I tried listening to some different types of music and my favorite was the upright bass but it all was somewhat different as far as tightness. Some old John Cougar was really tight and hard where Eric Claptons unplugged was not nearly as tight but somewhat more realistic sounding, and some Bob Marley was almost overwhelming really full bass at times on some songs.

Sorry to go on so long but what you asked is tough to describe considering most speakers sound different then sometimes throw in a sub, and I don't have to even talk about many different sounds there are in different recordings.

At first I thought it was an easy question until I listened to just a few different songs. [:S]

All of the opinions and mine and worth about 2 cents on a good day !

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Scott, you heard both of my systems the other day, i would describe the Chorus II system as deep and punchy.

Using just the LaScala's alone they produce detailed midbass with a clean bass feel that sounds like it needs some help, adding the Tuba sub not only finishes off the lows with seamless bass it shows off the flaws of the LS bass in the form of cabinet resonance that i did not pick up on until the Tuba came along.

Hope you enjoyed your visit.

Jason

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Jub and Khorn bass is very clean but my jubs are more authoritive. That's the best word I can come up swith for that. I've switched speakers in the same room so differing rooms not a factor. Gotta love clean low distortion bass. It is what I love about PWK designs. I don't like subs with Heritage but I have tried many many many times. The bass is just different from a sub.

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What could be the cause? Amp, the speakers x-over, preamp???

I would look at:

1) speakers (including subwoofers),

2) the room, and

3) amplifier [the one(s) driving your front woofers]

It could be a built-in EQ in your preamp (if you use a processor preamp), but you'd probably already know about that.

If you haven't already done it, place your fronts fully into room corners, toe them in toward your listening position, and turn off your subs. You might hear a different, kinder bass. If not then I'd try different fronts, or maybe just EQ the fronts down a bit on the lf end, starting about the 80-100 Hz region.

My $0.02.

Chris

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I should have been more specific. The issue is with the KLF-30's not the sub. The kick drum in any kind of music I play shares this "hard" hitting characteristic. It's tight, fast and punchy but it's not a bass that is "rounded off" if that makes any sense. It's on the verge of sounding "boxie" but in my experience that is usually from not enough power. The 30's are being fed 400 watts @ 8 ohms/ 750 @ 4 ohms/ and somewhere around 1000 @ 2 ohms.

One thing I did that did help was I hooked up a two-way crossover (Paradigm X-30). It has three hook-ups for the speakers.....50 hz, 80 hz, and 120 hz. It also has an LFE output for a sub. 50 hz sounds the best because it's the only setting that doesn't give me the "hard" bass I'm trying to avoid.

The problem with this crossover hooked up is that I lose output. I think it's because the speakers are essentially set to "small" this way.....like on a surround receiver. It sounds nice but the balls of the speaker are reduced significantly. If I could keep this sound and boost it like it is without the crossover I'd be in business.

I don't know....maybe this is just the way the 30's bass sounds. It will definitely beat you up when you're cranking it. When I had RF-7's, the bass was deep like subwoofer bass only tighter, faster and more accurate.

I've heard 30's side by side with Cornwalls and for rocking hard......well here I am with the 30's. The mids-highs powered with tubes has been very rewarding but I gotta figure out something with this bass. I've got four KLF-30's and I don't want to depend on a sub to soften up the bass. (like I've been doing)

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Scott,

I believe that is the sound difference between your old RF-7's with dual 10" woofers and your current KLF-30's with dual 12" woofers. Plus the fact that your feeding your woofers with 1000W of power would make them hard hitting.

Could I be using too much power? I don't think so......maybe my amps just really suck.
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I prefer the hard sound myself. At low volumes it still jars my teeth. Love it!

You might be a Cornwall fan. A litter slower fuller and bigger sounding bass.

Cornwall fan? Sure.....but I got the 30's for a reason.

I prefer the hard sound myself. At low volumes it still jars my teeth. Love it!

[;)]This could just be something I need to get used to. For the last 4 1/2 years I was running four RF-7's with anywhere between 2 and 6 subs on any given day. Like I said before, maybe I'm just so used to the sound of subwoofer bass???
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Scott, you heard both of my systems the other day, i would describe the Chorus II system as deep and punchy.

Using just the LaScala's alone they produce detailed midbass with a clean bass feel that sounds like it needs some help, adding the Tuba sub not only finishes off the lows with seamless bass it shows off the flaws of the LS bass in the form of cabinet resonance that i did not pick up on until the Tuba came along.

Hope you enjoyed your visit.

Jason

The Chorus ll's sounded really nice and that Tuba sub..........gotta get me one of them!! [Y]
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The Chorus ll's sounded really nice

What equipment did he use to demonstrate the capablities of the Chorus II's? You wouldn't believe the difference an amp or preamp and the amount of power can make when rocking out with a pair.

No offense to Jason, but if he is still using that Adcom gear, which I've used every amp they've ever made, there is another level of performance to be obtained from those speakers. Especially if you are wanting to rock out.

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