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Heresy IIIs - What a difference a few tweaks can make


Beta

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I purchased a pair of H3s about three months ago. My initial impression was that they were a bit too forward sounding for me. I could actually use the term (hate to say it) harsh.

I am using all SS gear. A Parasound Halo A 21 2-channel amp, Parasound Halo P3 preamp and a Cambridge Audio 840C CDP. My speaker cables are Kimber Kable 8TC cables.

I upgraded my P3 preamp to the Parasound Halo JC 2 preamp and I swapped out the stock jumper plates with Kimber Kable 8TC jumper cables. Wow, that did the trick, and some. Fowardness and harshness was immediately eliminated. I now have superb seperation and an impressively full soundstage. Don't see any need for tube gear now that I have incorporated the JC 2.

I chose the H3s over the Cornwall III because of the H3's smaller footprint. I make up for the H3's slight lack of lower end with a Polk Audio MicroPRO 2000 sub.

I am now extremely impressed with this speaker. I truly get it now when one references the Klipsch "Heritage" sound. Nice!

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I'd "tweak" the cheap stock electrolytic caps out of the crossover and replace them with sonicaps. That will elevate the performance nicely.

I would very much like to swap out the stock caps for sonicaps. Unfortunately, I'm not much of a DIY guy. I get very nervous
at the prospect of opening up a speaker.

Is this a complicated process?
Might one be kind enough to elaborate on how this process is accomplished? That would be greatly appreciated!

Andy

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It's not something you should mess with if you are not proficient at soldering and knowing what it is you are looking at.

The crossover board is on the back, that panel where the binding posts attach. The crossover is screwed to it. The assembly comes out, and the circuit board (crossover) is unbolted from that.

The capacitors are de-soldered, and new capacitors are soldered in.

Either a buddy or a decent hi-fi shop can do this.

Another method (more expensive) would be to just replace the crossover with a pre-built/upgraded unit. It makes a gigantic difference (improvement) in every aspect of the sound. This difference is 100% measurable as well, so it's nothing that can be attributed to simply personal listening bias.

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Hi Beta,

We have the home theater mentioned in my signature. I too feel that the sound is sometimes too bright/harsh (especially at high volumes). What changes to you recommend I make? People have stated that we should try a high-powered amplifier as I am very likely to be clipping my current A/V receiver due to the RF-7's very low ohm swings.

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It's not something you should mess with if you are not proficient at soldering and knowing what it is you are looking at.

The crossover board is on the back, that panel where the binding posts attach. The crossover is screwed to it. The assembly comes out, and the circuit board (crossover) is unbolted from that.

The capacitors are de-soldered, and new capacitors are soldered in.

Either a buddy or a decent hi-fi shop can do this.

Another method (more expensive) would be to just replace the crossover with a pre-built/upgraded unit. It makes a gigantic difference (improvement) in every aspect of the sound. This difference is 100% measurable as well, so it's nothing that can be attributed to simply personal listening bias.

I have HIs. I replaced my caps as the speakers are 30 years old..... Nice improvement.

His are HIIIs; 3 months fresh from the factory. They exceed my HIs in every way; more bass; nicer highs and smoother mids.

I do not think swapping to sonicaps is advisable. (This may or may not void the warranty; and there would not be much gained by swapping to $40 capacitors).

My .02.

Enjoy the speakers! Good Luck.

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I do not think swapping to sonicaps is advisable. (This may or may not void the warranty; and there would not be much gained by swapping to $40 capacitors).

My .02.

The warranty part is true...not worth voiding it. The cap part can't be...unless Klipsch started putting in something better than toys r us 10% electrolytic caps. It's not just the age of the caps that makes the difference, it's the quality. Cheap 10% caps have high ESR and smear the signal. By smear, the effect can be anything from harsh, to some opacity to attenuation. Sonicaps make a very audible difference in the tweeter path over anything Klipsch puts in...save for the good caps they put in the palladium xover.

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Good to see they finally started using good wire instead of ye olde zipcord.

Those are simple cheap caps, the type radio shack sells. (I had some in my KG4 and forte II). Just the thing for smear, stereo image drift and all kinds of detrimental things that good caps can improve on.

While I agree those are the best sounding heresy's to date, they can be improved.

Do not void the warranty to do it.

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Hi Beta,

We have the home theater mentioned in my signature. I too feel that the sound is sometimes too bright/harsh (especially at high volumes). What changes to you recommend I make? People have stated that we should try a high-powered amplifier as I am very likely to be clipping my current A/V receiver due to the RF-7's very low ohm swings.

Kain,

Let me start by saying that I am not an expert with it comes to audio. However, there are quite a few folks on this fourm who are. I will defer to them for their technological/specification(s) opinions.

I am simply going to give you my opinion based on what my ears hear and heard. Keep in mind that how a speaker sounds is subjective to the individual listener. What one person may hate about a particular speaker, another person may love.

In audio circles, it seems it is generally considered that horn speakers perform better (i.e. less harshness etc.) with tude gear. My gear is all solid state. I think it is generally considered that the Klipsch Heritage line (when using solid state gear) startes to sound better when one starts integrating quality seperates into their system (i.e. an amp and a preamp).

I have Parsasound equipment. My Parasound Halo 2-channel A 21 amp is quite powerful (250 watts per channel with a capacity of 60 amperes peak per channel).

I was using Parasound's Halo P3 preamp (their lower end preamp in their Halo series). Quite frankly, I think the overwheming majority of improvement in sound that I am experiencing is due to my upgrading from Parasound's Halo P3 preamp to Parasound's higher quality Halo JC 2 preamp.

However, I did swap out the stock jumper plates on my HIIIs with jumper cables that match my speaker cable (Kimber Kable 8TC). I personally noticed an improvement in sound by doing this. However, there is an entire school of thought out there that would dispute this claim. I simply base my judgement on what my ears hear.

It just seems to me that it may be hard to reach the HIIIs full potential with an AVR. That's just my personal opinion.

Personally, I find the journey for improvement in my system to be as satisfying as the end result. I started with an AVR when building my current 2-channel rig. As many folks who frequest this board will attest, this hobby can quickly drain your pockets of money!

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Thanks for the comments and posts.

Opening the speakers and tweaking the crossover is not something I would be proficient at. Therefore, my HIIIs will remain in their "factory" condition.

Much appreciated!

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I have yet to hear a solid state (especialy AVR) duplicate the musicality that a tube amp can bring to Klipsch. I have heard klipsch with art audio, Jolida, wolcott audio, quicksilver, Jota, BAT,Cary and VTL. Except for the wolcott audio (200 WPC) none of the other amps were near 100 watts, let alone 70. They were all able to paint a sonic landscape that I prefer to most, but not all ss front ends.

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To clarify my earlier post, the point I tried to articulate is that when using ss gear, seperates and higher quality equipment will generally render better results. There was no intention what so ever to compare ss sound to tube sound.

Nonetheless, the vast variences in opinions is part of what makes the audio world interesting.[;)]

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Beta, you have assembled a nice combination. You picked the right amp, pre and CD player. The Halo gear is as close to tube sound as SS gets. I'm running tube amps but like you I had to do some cable swapping before I got the sound of the H3s the way I wanted. I would say you know what you are doing and are certainly on the right track. Nice system.

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Don't see any need for tube gear now that I have incorporated the JC 2.

I think if you heard the H3's with some decent tube gear that thought would change pretty quick [;)]

Looking at those photo's of the H3 crossovers I don't see any electrolytic caps. I wouldn't touch them!

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Looking at those photo's of the H3 crossovers I don't see any electrolytic caps. I wouldn't touch them!

Looking at those photo's of the H3 crossovers I don't see any good caps. I would touch them.

They are the same junk caps klipsch uses in low end speakers. Changing them out made a huge difference. Any modder that has owned Klipsch with these caps has said and done the same thing. Some prefer paper in oil, I prefer dayton or sonicaps. Night and day better.

Note that these cheap, junk caps are not in the palladium: they wern't good enough. Klipsch's actions speak louder than words.

Photo of the same cheap, junk cap in stock low end sb2 bookshelf xover

Posted Image

Putting a great front end on stock HIII's with junk stock caps is like pouring fine wine down a lead pipe before drinking it.

Here is what a decent cap looks like: $2.68 dayton poly cap. 5% tolerance, LOW equivalent series resistance, unlike the cheap, junk yellow 10% caps with measurably high ESR.

Posted Image

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4tay: You will of course have to agree that none of your assertions carry any weight (other than in your mind) until the stock crossovers and caps have been measured and found to be deficient for their purposes.

Saying things like "everyone who's done this agrees" carries zero weight. None. Father Klipsch would politely and quietly show you the Button--as he would with your assertion that tubeamps with their *plethora* of problems are somehow better. He breathed a big sigh of relief and stopped using tubes as soon as good SS amps arrived.

If indeed the stock parts are measured and found deficient, as in improper levels of distortion or undesired crossovers frequencies and slopes, then we have something.

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