etc6849 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 On 10/5/2017 at 4:38 PM, Chris A said: I also need to assess whether or not I can make it easy to use by others besides myself...as that is also going to be a requirement. I haven't tried or bought it yet, but if you end up using only a PC, someone recommended I try http://www.audiovero.de/en/acourate.php, which would simplify a PC only setup and let you use FIR filters combined with room correction filters (or any custom filter you can think of) for all drivers. EDIT: This would make great use of 16 channels of AES out I also forgot to mention that JRiver has a virtual sound device, so other programs can use the filters even when they are external to JRiver. If you load the generated filters into JRiver, JRiver can account for the added audio delay by delaying the video (nice depending on how many taps the FIR filters have). This would mean you could freely use any DAC you'd like for even greater fidelity, while all processing is done on your PC using 64 bit floating point. This is the book for setting up Acourate and JRiver that someone was recommending to me: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FURPS40 I doubt you would need it knowing how tech saavy you are, but maybe someone here might find it useful. As for ease of use, JRiver has a really easy to use remote apps for Android and iOS too, so it should be very easy for people to pick a song or movie. I ripped all of my bluray movies to mkv files using Makemkv. It is bit perfect and works great for 3D and 2D movies. Absolutely no problems at all, and eliminates all the menus and trailers so it saves hard drive space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droogne Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 If one was to build a complete 3-way active LaScala, how necessary is it to have time delay in the crossover? And is it OK to use a crossover like the Samson S-3-way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 " And is it OK to use a crossover like the Samson S-3-way? " NO! The delays in cheap crossovers can only delay the bass, you need a DSP based delay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 I wouldn't use that crossover (https://www.amazon.com/Samson-S-3-way-Stereo-Mono-Crossover/dp/B000T4P16U) due to the poor reviews unless it was free. Delay is a must-have capability, IMO. I recommend a digital crossover so that you can set the delays. To answer your question--correcting delays is required in my opinion. I'd recommend talking with Cory,@MetropolisLakeOutfitters, to see what kind of deal you get on a Xilica 3060 or 4080, which have extremely good sound quality. There are other used good sound quality 2-in, 6-out crossovers out there that will also do well if the prices on new units are more than you were planning to spend. I've found that there is a lower limit on sound quality for active crossovers with Klipsch Heritage and Jubilees, and that limit is priced slightly less than third-party passive crossovers that you can find for Klipsch Heritage products. The lowest priced digital or analog active crossover units (e.g., Behringer, miniDSP 2x4) aren't in that category. However, the miniDSP "2x4 HD" will likely do it, but you'll need two of them to handle the 3-way of La Scalas. There is a thread on a tri-amped Belle that will get you very close to the settings for a tri-amped La Scala. I can help you get them dialed in using a digital crossover, especially if you have a calibrated microphone and run REW. However, REW isn't required. The settings in the thread below will get you very close: Chris 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droogne Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 12 hours ago, Chris A said: I wouldn't use that crossover (https://www.amazon.com/Samson-S-3-way-Stereo-Mono-Crossover/dp/B000T4P16U) due to the poor reviews unless it was free. Delay is a must-have capability, IMO. I recommend a digital crossover so that you can set the delays. To answer your question--correcting delays is required in my opinion. I'd recommend talking with Cory,@MetropolisLakeOutfitters, to see what kind of deal you get on a Xilica 3060 or 4080, which have extremely good sound quality. There are other used good sound quality 2-in, 6-out crossovers out there that will also do well if the prices on new units are more than you were planning to spend. I've found that there is a lower limit on sound quality for active crossovers with Klipsch Heritage and Jubilees, and that limit is priced slightly less than third-party passive crossovers that you can find for Klipsch Heritage products. The lowest priced digital or analog active crossover units (e.g., Behringer, miniDSP 2x4) aren't in that category. However, the miniDSP "2x4 HD" will likely do it, but you'll need two of them to handle the 3-way of La Scalas. There is a thread on a tri-amped Belle that will get you very close to the settings for a tri-amped La Scala. I can help you get them dialed in using a digital crossover, especially if you have a calibrated microphone and run REW. However, REW isn't required. The settings in the thread below will get you very close: Chris Would something like the "Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP audio interface" serve me right enough? Other second hand models I can buy for a good price: EV DX32, Behringer dsp 9024 (or 2xDSP-8024). Or something like 3x iNuke1000DSP amplifiers (it would cut down on the cost of amplifiers). Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 I would recommend EV DC-One, Yamaha SP2060 (a good crossover), and any of the Ashly Protea series. The current series that seems to have the best sound quality and good prices (in my experience) is the Xilica XP series. I wouldn't recommend Behringer, or DSP amplifiers like the iNuke (unless you can return them without cost) due to past issues with DSP noise using them for high sensitivity loudspeakers like Klipsch Heritage and Jubilees. Any other brands I would be extremely skeptical of (and there are a lot of off-brands nowadays). Try-before-buy would be my advice. There is one EV Dx38 in the Garage Sale area of this forum that's a 2-in, 4-out system. This would require you to move the tweeters to the top of the La Scalas and move them to the back of the cabinet, next to the K-55 compression drivers below. That's a good solid $300 investment that you can get back at some future date, if you decide to upgrade. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droogne Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 39 minutes ago, Chris A said: I would recommend EV DC-One, Yamaha SP2060 (a good crossover), and any of the Ashly Protea series. The current series that seems to have the best sound quality and good prices (in my experience) is the Xilica XP series. I wouldn't recommend Behringer, or DSP amplifiers like the iNuke (unless you can return them without cost) due to past issues with DSP noise using them for high sensitivity loudspeakers like Klipsch Heritage and Jubilees. Any other brands I would be extremely skeptical of (and there are a lot of off-brands nowadays). Try-before-buy would be my advice. There is one EV Dx38 in the Garage Sale area of this forum that's a 2-in, 4-out system. This would require you to move the tweeters to the top of the La Scalas and move them to the back of the cabinet, next to the K-55 compression drivers below. That's a good solid $300 investment that you can get back at some future date, if you decide to upgrade. Chris What about a Sabine NAV 3600? The owner (an audio company) says it's the same device as the xilica 3060. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 It appears that "Sabine NAV 3600" is a stencil name for Xilica XP-3060 . I'd try that one--but only if the software that drives it on your computer (PC or Mac) works for you and the crossover. That's a big "if". IOW: try before buy. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droogne Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 21 minutes ago, Chris A said: It appears that "Sabine NAV 3600" is a stencil name for Xilica XP-3060 . I'd try that one--but only if the software that drives it on your computer (PC or Mac) works for you and the crossover. That's a big "if". IOW: try before buy. Chris I'm checking the software now. Not really the possibility to buy it and test it though.. Only 375, inlcuding sending which is a decent price considering buying 2 mini DSP is almost as expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 That's the right approach. The only risk will be connecting to the crossover via USB or Ethernet, and I assume that Sabine probably used the same low level drivers as Xilica, but... Let us know how it goes, then we can add it to our running list of brands/models. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droogne Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 10 minutes ago, Chris A said: That's the right approach. The only risk will be connecting to the crossover via USB or Ethernet, and I assume that Sabine probably used the same low level drivers as Xilica, but... Let us know how it goes, then we can add it to our running list of brands/models. Chris Will do! The person who was going to sell me the pair of K-55M I need suddenly backed down.. and the bassbins will have to be build first too. Could take a while Will let you know when I have it up and running! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droogne Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Chris A said: That's the right approach. The only risk will be connecting to the crossover via USB or Ethernet, and I assume that Sabine probably used the same low level drivers as Xilica, but... Let us know how it goes, then we can add it to our running list of brands/models. Chris Also, what would you recommend for amplifiers? In particular, how do I know how much power I require/channel. Do they have to be the same (I'm guessing they do not) or do I have to match the sensitivities? I'm thinking about buying a Dared DV-c6 amp, but it might be cheaper to find 3 pairs of second hand (tube) amps. Does it matter what brands/sound quality and characteristics the different amps have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 Generally speaking, the amplifiers can be different. If using monoblocks, you're still restricted to pairs. I have no strong recommendations for amplifiers. They don't need much output power capability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 It is helpful to have amplifiers with gain controls which will help to optimize the gain structure, levels through the processor, and reduce noise. Not absolutely required but I found beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droogne Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 22 minutes ago, mark1101 said: It is helpful to have amplifiers with gain controls which will help to optimize the gain structure, levels through the processor, and reduce noise. Not absolutely required but I found beneficial. I'll probably be using a Marantz SR5004 to do the amplification, which means I'll have full control over each channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droogne Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 On 2-11-2017 at 9:08 PM, mark1101 said: It is helpful to have amplifiers with gain controls which will help to optimize the gain structure, levels through the processor, and reduce noise. Not absolutely required but I found beneficial. On 31-10-2017 at 7:52 PM, Chris A said: Generally speaking, the amplifiers can be different. If using monoblocks, you're still restricted to pairs. I have no strong recommendations for amplifiers. They don't need much output power capability. What about the power levels? I guess it's best to use the same amp to drive the tweeters or squawker or woofers right? If I read the specs right for my drivers the power output for my woofers are 400 watt 8ohm RMS each... does this mean I can power it with a pro amp like a behriger iNuke to it's full extent to reach extreme bass levels in the LS? Or doesnt it work like this (maybe because it is limited due to its type horn loaded bass bin ? Or because it would be a too big discrepancy between the sensitivity of the woofer and the squawker and tweeter )? Not really needing to do it like that, but those iNuke amps do not cost much so it wouldnt even be more expensive (probably even less so than a normal amp.). Also when people say tube amps add "a warm sound" to your klipsch.. is this because of it's effect on the more upper ranges? Not the lower ones I'm guessing. So if I'd want to have this effect, I'd only need 2x tube stereo amps and 1 solid state to get the full "tube" sound. I understand I'm guessing in the dark here, and that a lot of my questions might not have (straight) answers, but I'm trying to expand my knowledge everyday so I'm just throwing them out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Ok just so you know it works very well!!! I am using a SS amp on the woofers and two different tube amps one for the mids and one for the tweeters!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droogne Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Just now, canyonman said: Ok just so you know it work very well!!! I am using a SS amp on the woofers and two different tube amps one for the mids and one for the tweeters!!! With the intention I just tried to explain? Cool to hear! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droogne Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 On 31-10-2017 at 3:02 PM, Chris A said: I would recommend EV DC-One, Yamaha SP2060 (a good crossover), and any of the Ashly Protea series. The current series that seems to have the best sound quality and good prices (in my experience) is the Xilica XP series. I wouldn't recommend Behringer, or DSP amplifiers like the iNuke (unless you can return them without cost) due to past issues with DSP noise using them for high sensitivity loudspeakers like Klipsch Heritage and Jubilees. Any other brands I would be extremely skeptical of (and there are a lot of off-brands nowadays). Try-before-buy would be my advice. There is one EV Dx38 in the Garage Sale area of this forum that's a 2-in, 4-out system. This would require you to move the tweeters to the top of the La Scalas and move them to the back of the cabinet, next to the K-55 compression drivers below. That's a good solid $300 investment that you can get back at some future date, if you decide to upgrade. Chris As the person selling me the NAV3600 cant confirm the software as of yet (she is looking into it) I was looking around, and I saw someone using the Behringer DCX 2496 on his Jubilees, I wouuld be able to get this one for a fraction of the price (only 125 euro). Good alternative if the Sabine doesnt work out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 4, 2017 Author Share Posted November 4, 2017 No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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