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50 minutes ago, Chris A said:

No.

Not even as a start up model? If I dont like it I can use it as a subwoofer EQ.

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7 hours ago, Chris A said:

 

Hmm.. that does seem pretty condemning.. I did buy the dcx2496 yesterday as the seller only sold it for few hours.. It was a very good price so I couldnt just let it go. That aside, I see what problems you raise and I hear you. It just seems although it has it is quality problems it's a very solid EQ for what I'm wanting to do. It might backfire on me. If it does, if I explicitly hear what problems are raised in the linked post, I'll know it's from the crossover, and hurry up in my upgrade to a Xilica. Cause, although I did buy this xover I'm not planning on staying with it. Finding a Xilica will be my first upgrade (but a true Xilica, not the Sabine for which I still cant find any reliable software download). It just fits better with my initial budget (when I was hoping on a cheap samson S-3-way), and I'm pretty sure I can repurpose this crossover OR sell it for the same price as I bought it. I bought it second hand, but it looks spanking new and they are going out of market I've heard which can't hurt their second hand price. For now I'll just enjoy what I have, use the saved money somewhere else vital in my build and try to counter as much of the problems the DCX has (without having to really mod the DCX). 

Sorry not to take your advice! I still value it very much, I just jumped to quickly on this cheaper model :s

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On 5-11-2017 at 3:45 AM, Chris A said:

Still kinda "sad" I went for the behringer.. Trying to sell it now so I can buy the Sabine NAV. A recent flyer got me thinking though.. would you happen to know something about the dB-MARK gear? I've included the flyer below. Specs:

 

"dB-Mark XCA26 - Professional loudspeaker management DSP with 2 inputs and 6 outputs

 

High quality LMS with 2 inputs, 6 outputs, and optional PC control via dedicated software
 

Features & Specifications:
 

  • 96K Hz sampling frequency, 32-bit DSP processor, 24- bit A/D and D/A converter.
  • 6 models available: 2 ins/4 outs, 2 ins/6 outs, 2 ins/8 outs, 3 ins/6 outs, 4 ins/6 outs, 4 ins/8 outs.
  • USB and RS485 sockets for PC connection. Up to 250 units can be linked via RS485 and controlled remotely over distances up to 1500m.
  • Convenient use of function buttons on either front panel or the included software interface displays.
  • Up to 30 user-program parameters can be stored into the device.
  • Safety/security lock buttons provide peace of mind again changes from unauthorised users or unwanted set-up changes.
  • 6 independent parametric EQ for both input and output.
  • Gain range is ±20 d B. Output channel EQ has two slopes: Lo-shelf and Hi-shelf.
  • 6 LED display an exact digital level meter (and mute and edit status of input/output).
  • All inputs and outputs feature compensation-delay, phase control and mute settings, with a delay function offer a maximum of 1000ms.
  • Adjustable gain & limiting of output channel, withg easy setting cloning to other channels if required
  • DAC Chip: Texas Instruments PCM1798
  • ADC Chip: Asahi Kasei AK5388
  • DSP Chip: Texas Instruments TM320C6726
  • Op Amps: Texas Instruments MC33078, ST Microelectronics MC33079"

23634776_1824002454310635_1554378302_n.jpg

23667294_1824002460977301_1031302146_n.jpg

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Get the Xilica and call it a day, you won't regret buying it and it will be the last one you ever buy...

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10 minutes ago, Droogne said:

would you happen to know something about the dB-MARK gear?

Unfortunately I don't have experience or third-hand knowledge with this brand.  The specifications usually don't tell you what you want to know (i.e., subjective sound quality comes first, then features or perhaps ease of use/software user interface quality).   There are some threads on the Freespeakerplans forum where others are asking the same question...such as this:  https://www.freespeakerplans.com/kunena/7-general-forum/17651-db-mark-processors

 

Chris

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25 minutes ago, canyonman said:

Get the Xilica and call it a day, you won't regret buying it and it will be the last one you ever buy...

I would, and maybe I will, but I have a lot of upgrades planned. I'll also need several crossovers in the end, including one for my height speaker and subwoofer project, which is why I can settle for a les qualitive xover for now. Will 100% end with the Xilica (in the near future)! 

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20 minutes ago, Chris A said:

Unfortunately I don't have experience or third-hand knowledge with this brand.  The specifications usually don't tell you what you want to know (i.e., subjective sound quality comes first, then features or perhaps ease of use/software user interface quality).   There are some threads on the Freespeakerplans forum where others are asking the same question...such as this:  https://www.freespeakerplans.com/kunena/7-general-forum/17651-db-mark-processors

 

Chris

I know I cant deduce quality of sound from a spec sheet, which is why I'm asking here ;) was hoping that maybe because of the included chips/parts it was maybe possible to establish a level of subjective quality. Thanks for the link!

  • DAC Chip: Texas Instruments PCM1798
  • ADC Chip: Asahi Kasei AK5388
  • DSP Chip: Texas Instruments TM320C6726)

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YES! I'm able to audition the dB-mark XCA-26 for 14 days . Only shipping has to be payed if I return it (like 10 euros). Maybe I can find a Xillica somewhere too, which I can use to compare them.

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A little secret: it's usually the analog portions of the units--and how they handle downstream DSP noise--that determine the sound quality of the units. 

 

The only factor that I've found that apparently discriminates on the digital side is the sample rate (48 vs. 96 kHz) nowadays.  There seems to be a difference in the sound of the decays with the faster sampling rate but it's a very small factor, I've found.  Perhaps the ability to stay in the digital domain from the preamp (AES/EBU connection)--at least so says @etc6849 (and he's apparently quite sold on this approach).  But surprisingly, the cost apparently doubles when you do this...when it appears on the surface that the cost should be actually lower.  I plan on using my older Yamaha SP2060 with AES/EBU input to check this out, but I first need a digital player or preamp that has AES/EBU outputs.  I'll be doing this in the future, but it may be a year or so removed from the present--due to the number of projects that I've got stacked up and the economic constraints of trying to do everything all at once. 

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5 minutes ago, Chris A said:

A little secret: it's usually the analog portions of the units--and how they handle downstream DSP noise--that determine the sound quality of the units. 

 

The only factor that I've found that apparently discriminates on the digital side is the sample rate (48 vs. 96 kHz) nowadays.  There seems to be a difference in the sound of the decays with the faster sampling rate but it's a very small factor, I've found.  Perhaps the ability to stay in the digital domain from the preamp (AES/EBU connection)--at least so says @etc6849 (and he's apparently quite sold on this approach).  But surprisingly, the cost apparently doubles when you do this...when it appears on the surface that the cost should be actually lower.  I plan on using my older Yamaha SP2060 with AES/EBU input to check this out, but I first need a digital player or preamp that has AES/EBU outputs.  I'll be doing this in the future, but it may be a year or so removed from the present--due to the number of projects that I've got stacked up and the economic constraints of trying to do everything all at once. 

I hear you! I'm going from a simple 5.1 straight into a 11.2 with active DIY LaScalas and DIY subwoofers.. Money and time are against me. 

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On 16/11/2017 at 3:45 PM, Droogne said:

I would, and maybe I will, but I have a lot of upgrades planned. I'll also need several crossovers in the end, including one for my height speaker and subwoofer project, which is why I can settle for a les qualitive xover for now. Will 100% end with the Xilica (in the near future)! 

Maarten,

 

Think of it this way: if jou want to build a nice house,  you need a strong foundation.  Well, the Xilica is part of that foundation,  you want it to be right from the first time.  

It's okay to wait a while to get the money saved, I guess that's what most of us do.  As we say in Belgium: "Rome wasn't built in a day"

 

Wim

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2 hours ago, Wim M said:

Maarten,

 

Think of it this way: if jou want to build a nice house,  you need a strong foundation.  Well, the Xilica is part of that foundation,  you want it to be right from the first time.  

It's okay to wait a while to get the money saved, I guess that's what most of us do.  As we say in Belgium: "Rome wasn't built in a day"

 

Wim

Well, I'm from Belgium (Leuven) too ;) youre the first forum member from Belgian I see! I know how important the crossover is, I'm hoping I can resell the behringer so I can buy a decent second hand Xilica.

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On 26/11/2017 at 4:16 PM, Ol_mcdonald said:

Anybody here ever use the dbx Driverack PA2?

 

 

 

 

I did a test with the dbx Driverack Venu360.  To my ears it sounded like somebody put a veil over the speakers, foggy.  Definitely lost clarity.  So I went for the Xilica instead, which sounds christal clear.

 

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On 11/26/2017 at 10:16 AM, Ol_mcdonald said:

Anybody here ever use the dbx Driverack PA2?

 

Yes, and I love it.

 

First understand that my Speakerlab K horns, for the first time, found themselves in an impossible room.

I picked up a pair of Beyma baby cheeks but it needed more. 

I set my mike where my head sits on the end of my sofa, and ran the EQ Wizard for that spot only, no others, and even tri amped with my Hafler DH200 and a pair of Onkyo receivers, it was absolutely astonishing.   

In the perfect room, I had all I wanted, now I cannot wait to get it back in the right room to see how good this can sound.

After fighting so many passive x-overs, the beauty of an active is indescribable, along with all the DSP available.

 

for this DBX - price was $308 on Amazon $400 total with cables and condensor mike.

it also has optional floating ground and switchable input resistance for home audio.

Getting it quiet enough forced me to abandon my laptop and usb sound card for a desktop with internal SB Titanium.

My room is now dead quiet, and I suspect there is a veil over the sound but anything in the signal path will do that, I cannot hear it. 

 

I am just just starting this journey, inspired by all who post on this site. 

 

Many thanks,

 

Edited by dGerbz
spelling

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This is a great option if you want to experiment with a digital solution with AES out: https://www.amazon.com/GUSTARD-32Bit-384KHz-Digital-Interface/dp/B00PU3R6KY/

 

It is what convinced me to buy the RME AES32 PCI-E 16 channel input/16 channel out card.  The driver support and quality of the RME cards are top notch.  Although it was expensive, it is very flexible (can show up as a 16 channel device to a DAW/JRiver and also a 8 channel device to Windows at the same time so Netflix still works), and you can even control the RME mixer over the network which is how I control the volume (via my home automation system).

 

Having a 5.1 setup that uses AES out from my PC, three Xilica XD4080 processors with FIR filters and 10 Benchmark AHB2 amps is incredible.  I can literally turn the volume down 85 dBU and still understand the words being spoken.  Some of this is attributed to the AHB2 amps, but I could never get there with having my XMC-1 processor in the mix.  It is the clearest most life-like system I have ever heard.  There is zero hiss unless you put your ear into the horns.

 

I also added 3 more subs, giving a total of 5 subs running off one of the Xilica units.  These 5 subs are all time aligned and level matched, and the performance is incredible.  Although it took a good day to align all 15 drivers and the subs, it was well worth it.  I've had the full 5.1 system setup for 6 months now, and I am 100% satisfied with it.

 

I don't think there are any additional changes I can make to the system to improve quality, it is simply the best sounding setup I have ever heard at any price.  I did end up making my own custom racks (Middle Atantic CFR series cabinet frame units) and cables using Canare star quad cable too so the system looks nice too.

 

Using AES makes so much sense; you can locate a rack with more Xilica XD4080's in other parts of the house (or even your neighbors down the street), with no signal loss.  This is my ultimate plan for my permanent home as JRiver supports multiple zones, and I am only using 6 channels out of the 16 channel card. 

 

JRiver also has some very nice looking iOS and Android remote app options.  Plus, I'm now using MadVR to playback 4k HDR content from within JRiver; this gives me a world class video option if you buy a higher end graphics card.

 

Some pics and older measurements: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1J0a4OV_WGLQndldFAtZXMxdVk

 

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 9:59 AM, Chris A said:

A little secret: it's usually the analog portions of the units--and how they handle downstream DSP noise--that determine the sound quality of the units. 

 

The only factor that I've found that apparently discriminates on the digital side is the sample rate (48 vs. 96 kHz) nowadays.  There seems to be a difference in the sound of the decays with the faster sampling rate but it's a very small factor, I've found.  Perhaps the ability to stay in the digital domain from the preamp (AES/EBU connection)--at least so says @etc6849 (and he's apparently quite sold on this approach).  But surprisingly, the cost apparently doubles when you do this...when it appears on the surface that the cost should be actually lower.  I plan on using my older Yamaha SP2060 with AES/EBU input to check this out, but I first need a digital player or preamp that has AES/EBU outputs.  I'll be doing this in the future, but it may be a year or so removed from the present--due to the number of projects that I've got stacked up and the economic constraints of trying to do everything all at once. 

 

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On 12/3/2017 at 2:18 PM, dGerbz said:

Yes, and I love it.

 

First understand that my Speakerlab K horns, for the first time, found themselves in an impossible room.

I picked up a pair of Beyma baby cheeks but it needed more. 

I set my mike where my head sits on the end of my sofa, and ran the EQ Wizard for that spot only, no others, and even tri amped with my Hafler DH200 and a pair of Onkyo receivers, it was absolutely astonishing.   

In the perfect room, I had all I wanted, now I cannot wait to get it back in the right room to see how good this can sound.

After fighting so many passive x-overs, the beauty of an active is indescribable, along with all the DSP available.

 

for this DBX - price was $308 on Amazon $400 total with cables and condensor mike.

it also has optional floating ground and switchable input resistance for home audio.

Getting it quiet enough forced me to abandon my laptop and usb sound card for a desktop with internal SB Titanium.

My room is now dead quiet, and I suspect there is a veil over the sound but anything in the signal path will do that, I cannot hear it. 

 

I am just just starting this journey, inspired by all who post on this site. 

 

Many thanks,

 

Sorry for the late reply, holidays ya know. I have a new Driverack in storage awaiting a new homes completion, but it seemed to be what I needed at a very reasonable price. I love your inputs with the speakON connections. I modified my K horns with Neutrik speakOn in a similar fashion; Input routed to LF inside woofer bin, with output to MF/HF tops. I can't wait to get my hands on it and finally hear this setup in my new room. I also bought mine on amazon at about the same price, a bargain considering all it does.  Thanks for the reply, I haven't seen much mention of the dbx here and was curious if I was the only one , I have always been a fan of their products and have owned several over the years, companders I used with tape, 20/20 EQ, program route selectors, 4bx etc.  Always performed well and reasonably priced in a segment where there are many overpriced products for my budget.

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As your DBX PA2 is still in storage, Ol_mcdonald, I hope to tease, or perhaps warn you on it as I progress with my system.

It has many features we will never use and can only make trouble for the final sound, so I only use 3 tools:crossover, speaker alignment, and the Wizard.

dbxCrossover.PNG.e17b2651a587f5636310f03415b7d45c.PNG

.

For my Khorn, I selected custom 2 way crossover with subwoofer and plugged in the standard 400 and 5000 hz crossover points.

What I love is dragging the circled L M H circles while playing my reference sounds till it sounds right, watching the bars below move to warn of something blowing up

 

dbxAlignment.thumb.PNG.3963e89684fdc095264f41f902fae438.PNG

 

I've adjust my alignment by ruler, not by measuring peaks or dips, I'll have time to fine tune down the road. Note this just covers the amount of delay required by a Khorn.

 

dbxWizard.PNG.87583881583f0d95d49c22247bde83fe.PNG

 

The Wizard surprised me by permitting adjustment to it's computed 8 PEQ's by again simply dragging the 1 thru 8 points to improve on the sound as listening to my sounds and watching the adjustment levels below move in sync to the new PEQ.  This is the most useful tool as I really do not want to use the graphic equalizer or the 3 driver specific PEQ's.  I also have no need for the Feedback Suppression, Limiter, or Compressor.

 

I've returned my Onkyo receivers to the office and bedroom with Ebay sourced Parasound HCA 600 and 750 power amps as replacements.   

The Onkyo's were never offensive like current Sony and Pioneer receivers, but real power amps really isolate each instrument and note.

Now I cannot stop listening.  I do everything on my sofa. I cannot leave it.

Even MP3's sound better, which I didn't expect, as well as web streams; https://www.twitch.tv/monstercat

 

And now that it sounds right, and the poly finish has cured, I'll be dissembling these speakers to quite literally (3M 1080) wrap up this project.

 

Thanks to all.

  

 

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I'm sure this distance is buried somewhere in this thread, but using 48LR, at 400hz,  introduces a 2.5ms/86cm delay times two, or 5ms/172cm delay.  How many cm or inches does one add for the physical distance between the K-33 and the K-55 on a Khorn?    

 

Thanks, Mike

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