What is 'reference' level?

[Coytee]

My understanding is if you listen to something at reference level, you are listening to it at 'zero' on the dial, no attenuation..... is this correct?

If this is correct then this is my question.

If you have a pair of Heresy's at reference level that will give you a certain loudness. A pair of Khorns at the same level will give you quite a bit difference in sound. Again on to the Jubilee's... Is reference level a certain db or merely 'zero' on the knob?

Here's part II: My amps (Crown K2's) have gain knobs. If I have the dial on my preamp at zero what would represent referenece level on my Crowns? Wide open? 50%?

This is really just a question out of intellectual curiosity. Well... curiosity anyway....my wife might argue the intellectual part [^o)]

[sunburnwilly]

Just some silly thing that some silly people made up .

[RockOn4Klipsch]

"reference" level is a dB number, usually if you use an auto eq such as audyssey or the likes it sets the levels so that 0 is "reference" level, that reference level being 75 dB with pink noise. You can set the reference level to what ever works best for you ie -15 dB could be your reference level of 75 dBs. This is useful when you have very effiecent speakers like klipsch as -10 on the trim level could put you over the 75 dB's at 0, so you could adjust the trim/gain so that any number represents your reference level.

The idea of reference level is so that your dolby digital/dts sources when played at reference level give you dialog in the 75 dB range and allows for dynamic peaks to I believe 114dB with LFE. If your using a setup in a strictly 2 channel setting reference level means nothing because as we all know CD's are not mixed to the same DD/dts standards.

The best way to deal with reference levels is to merely give you a frame of reference of how loud your system plays at any give - ## dB on the volume knob. This helps if you are worried about your hearing and plan to follow OSHA guidelines for prolonged exposure to dB's at higher SPLs.

Hope that helps.

[Coytee]

"reference" level is a dB number, usually if you use an auto eq such as audyssey or the likes it sets the levels so that 0 is "reference" level, that reference level being 75 dB with pink noise

Hope that helps

The whole thing helps a whole lot. The first comment is what I was thinking in the back of my head

Thanks

[Olorin]

"reference" level is a dB number, usually if you use an auto eq such as audyssey or the likes it sets the levels so that 0 is "reference" level, that reference level being 75 dB with pink noise

Hope that helps

The whole thing helps a whole lot. The first comment is what I was thinking in the back of my head

Thanks

This post I'm about to quote is a pretty decent explanation. I've seen a better, more comprehensive one at the same site, but I can't find it now, and this one hits the core of your question square-on.

Reference level itself (105 dB peak) was set by the film industry, and
for our purposes it just is what it is. Theoretically, it lets every
movie play in every theater at the "correct" livel - - that is, what the
mixers and producers heard when mixing on a system calibrated to
reference.



Mixing stages calibrate reference using a -20 dBFS pink noise test tone,
so when the tone plays, their meters should read 85 dB. As I
understand it, early receivers that calibrated to reference adopted the
-20 dBFS calibration tone, which scared the bejeesus out of some
consumers onaccounta it's a pretty loud waterfall issuing from each
speaker. So they "turned down" the test tone to -30 for consumer
equipment (although I don't know that this as absolutely for certain
with every consumer device, and since Audyssey generates its own test
tones that are not pink noise and that will increase involume if there
is interference, really doesn't have a ton to do with Audyssey).



Anyway, because of the beauty of how the dB scale works, assuming your
speakers and or amp don't compress with the increased volume, because 30
+ 75 equals 105, using a -30 dBFS test tone with a 75 dB "target" level
creates the exact same result as would using a -20 dBFS test tone with
an 85 dB "target" level.

So, you use your meter or your mic with REW, and you play your pink noise, and you adjust the volume on your receiver until you're getting 75 db. Whatever number is on your volume display, add 30, and provided your gear can do it, that is reference level playback.

Of course if you're using Audyssey or it's ilk, all that is done automagically, so you just follow the directions and check the result.

[RockOn4Klipsch]

So, you use your meter or your mic with REW, and you play your pink noise, and you adjust the volume on your receiver until you're getting 75 db. Whatever number is on your volume display, add 30, and provided your gear can do it, that is reference level playback.

I don't understand what you mean by then add 30? The Dynamic range is already built into the dd/dts standard so by calibrating to 75dB and then playing it back at reference level, you get dynamic peaks. The plus 30 thing would be crazy if you mean add 30 more dB's plus the addition of the dynamic range of a given disc.

[RockOn4Klipsch]

Also your 105dB number reference the loudness without the addition of the 10dB's supplied by the LFE channel.

[Olorin]

So, you use your meter or your mic with REW, and you play your pink noise, and you adjust the volume on your receiver until you're getting 75 db. Whatever number is on your volume display, add 30, and provided your gear can do it, that is reference level playback.

I don't understand what you mean by then add 30? The Dynamic range is already built into the dd/dts standard so by calibrating to 75dB and then playing it back at reference level, you get dynamic peaks. The plus 30 thing would be crazy if you mean add 30 more dB's plus the addition of the dynamic range of a given disc.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I should have said "If your pink noise is
full volume, add 30." If your signal is recorded -30 dbfs, you don't
have to add anything because the signal already has the 30 db of
headroom built into it, so whatever level gives you 75 db with a -30
dbfs signal would give you 105 db peaks.

Audyssey and built-in
routines do that for you, so I should have been clearer about that vs. doing it manually with test tones.

You raise a very good point, and thanks for doing that.

Also your 105dB number reference
the loudness without the addition of the 10dB's supplied by the LFE
channel.

Right, 105 db main, 115 db LFE, and since the decoder adds the LFE's 10 db for you, you use 75 db for all channels during calibration. I think we're on the same page here, just separated by a common language.

[RockOn4Klipsch]

rgr that

[jacksonbart]

When the wife tell you to turn it down

[mistermoravec]

exactly

[Dr. Jim Mixon]

I can see I'm much luckier than you guys; my wife doesn't tell me to turn it down. She likes it played hot.

[BE36]

Thou shall not covet another man's wife . . .

Thou shall not covet another man's wife . . .

Thou shall not covet another man's wife . . .

[Thaddeus Smith]

my wife gives me the silent treatment when she's miffed at me ..i give her the "cant escape the rf-5's anywhere in the house" treatment when i'm miffed at her.

[psg]

"reference" level is a dB number, usually if you use an auto eq such as audyssey or the likes it sets the levels so that 0 is "reference" level, that reference level being 75 dB with pink noise.

Right. My HK avr doesn't have Audyssey. 0 dB is still maximum output and I have measured reference level to be at -13dB on my volume dial.

[Dr. Jim Mixon]

Thaddeussmith, I LIKE your style; however, I don't know how you get away with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wish you all sorts of luck.

[Thaddeus Smith]

hehe ..usually we have disagreements over asinine things which never changes the fact that we love AND like each other. she recognizes it as button pushing and lets it slide..usually.

[CECAA850]

I'm lucky, when my wife hears loud music from the living room, she normally comes out to have a listen with me[Y].

She will however come out to the garage when I get a little loud outSIDE. "YOU DON'T WANT THE POLICE OUT HERE AGAIN DO YOU???"