Bookshelf Cornwalls?

[Radmanna]

Hello.

I've been working on plans to set up a home theater system, with the following specs: Two channel system, with speakers at left & right of an 18 foot wall. The wall-mounted TV would be centered in the middle of the left & right 2-channel speakers (and a subwoofer). The main listening area would be the living room couch ... centered between the left & right 2-channel speakers ... and 10 feet in front of the wall-mounted TV. The living room segways into the kitchen, with no wall separating these two rooms. It's in effect a large rectangular area that contains the living room area and kitchen area.

To maximize floor-space use, I was thinking about putting a pair of heavy pine buffets at the left/right corners of the 18 foot wall, and to "bookshelf" the 2-channel speakers on top of the buffets. Actually, the speakers would just be sitting on top of the buffets. The buffets are made of 1.74" slabs of pine, so they can support a lot of weight.

My original and perhaps final plan was to use a pair of Heresy III speakers. But I'm now considering the possibility of using Cornwalls. Here are dimension comparisons of each speaker and each buffet:

* 24" H x 16" W x 13" D ... Heresy III

* 36" H x 25" W x 16" D ... Cornwall III

* 36" H x 60" W x 19" D ... Pine Buffet

Questions please:

1. Does anyone have experience with placing their Cornwalls so high above the floor? How high were they, and what were they sitting on?

2. What are the pros and cons of having Cornwalls sitting on a buffet that is three feet high, and not sitting on the floor?

3. Because the Cornwalls have 15" woofers, and a really low frequency response, would I lose that "bass sensation through the floor", by having them sitting on thick pine buffets that are three feet high? Would some of the bass sensation ... still be able to travel through the pine buffet ... and then through the wood floor to our living room couch?

Steve

[laager]

1. Does anyone have experience with placing their Cornwalls so high above the floor?

No idea where I picked up this image but I think it answers part of the question. []

[Ave Bona Cornwall]

IMO, I think the cornwalls would be fine 3' high. You might want to turn them sideways, or get vertical cornwalls (on their side). When I am close to my cornwalls, there is definitely different sound coming out at the woofer lever, mid-horn level, and high freq horn level, so turning them sidways my help with that if everything is at ear level while sitting.

I know there have been people who have had Cornwalls mounted above their TVs; I have seen the pics, but I don't recall who or what thread.

[Radmanna]

Thanks laager and Ave. I was not able to see the jpeg picture that laager provided, so will try to view on another computer. I am confused about the mentioning of a vertical Cornwall, unless you mean to rotate the Cornwall 90 degrees?

So, an additional question please: Any experience with placing your Cornwalls on their side, when setting them above the floor level, or mounting them above the floor? Pros and cons?

Pics of rotated Cornwalls that are set (or mounted) above the floor would be appreciated, if you have any handy.

[garyeanderson]

I am not sure I can help you much with your question on the amount of bass lost when you raise up the Cornwall off the floor but I did raise mine. I had a lack of real estate problem that I was trying to solve and I rarely play the cornwall's by themselves and I didn't have them on the floor for very long before I moved them to where they are currenly. I guess you could call it bass re-inforcement. They will be coming down soon so that I can re-cap the crossovers and will stay down for a while untill I get a volenteer to help again move them again.

They are a bit higher than what you are talking about but I would guess that most of what is lost from being off the floor is gained by being corner placed. I know that I sit directly above this when sitting at the computer and the floor of the upstairs is pretty well coupled to the bass when its turned up a bit as the seat of my pants feels it pretty good.

Your question about the vertical Cornwall is covered in a recent post. The link is

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/136563.aspx?PageIndex=2

the whole discussion is pretty informative and a good read by anyone contemplating a Cornwall purchase or someone that just wants to learn about them.

[Radmanna]

You might want to turn them sideways, or get vertical cornwalls (on their side). When I am close to my cornwalls, there is definitely different sound coming out at the woofer lever, mid-horn level, and high freq horn level, so turning them sidways my help with that if everything is at ear level while sitting.

Thanks everyone, for your comments. I googled < Klipsch, "vertical cornwalls" > and got this link: < http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/59215/578788.aspx >. This thread gives pretty good information about what I beleive Ave was referring to: the vertical cornwall. Be advised that this thread is about five years old.

My eyes are pooped from a long day, but did I read the following two points correctly ... from the above link that I pasted?

1. Cornwalls are not stocked ... they are made when ordered. When you order, you can specify whether you want a "vertical cornwall".

2. When asked if there was a difference in sound quality between the normal Cornwall (and normal Heresy) ... and the "vertical Cornwall" (and vertical Heresy) ... Mr. Klipsch's answer was no.

So, if I read the above two points correctly, is it permitted to order your Cornwalls to be built in the "vertical" geometry, so as to have all the internal drivers lower to the surface that the Cornwalls are setting on?

And if it is permitted to order your Cornwalls to be built in the "vertical" geometry, is this so much of a standard practice, that Klipsch currently provides lots of vertical Cornwalls to its customers?

Please remember the OP's specs: 2-channel system ... speakers at L/R corners of 18 foot wall ... considering having Cornwalls setting on sturdy pine buffets that are three feet high ... primary listening spot is couch that is centered between the speakers and ten feet in front of the 18 foot wall. Would vertical Cornwalls sound better than normal Cornwalls?

[muel]

Just don't put them ten feet up! See in the attached pic an example of TOO high! The positioning shown sounded pretty bad and the repositioning I have done since this picture only improved the sound a little. I just didn't have any other choice if I wanted these in the living room. The top of these cabinets are just over 9 feet and I had to borrow a scaffold to get these 68 vertical Cornwalls up there! The room is also very live which doesn't help.

...maybe my Elmo listening chair is just too low! [^o)]

[jamesV]

And if it is permitted to order your Cornwalls to be built in the "vertical" geometry, is this so much of a standard practice, that Klipsch currently provides lots of vertical Cornwalls to its customers?

Klipsch no longer builds Vertical Cornwalls.

Attached is the history of each Heritage speakers and gives you the date codes to determine build date.

James

KLIPSCH HERITAGE TYPES Codes Forum.pdf

KLIPSCH HERITAGE TYPES Codes Forum.pdf

[Radmanna]

Klipsch no longer builds Vertical Cornwalls. James

Those are interesting grills on your speakers, muel. How old are your Cornwalls? Also, any particular reason why you have the bottom of your speakers facing away from the center of the room, instead of facing towards the center of the room? Seeing as how you had to hoist those buggers up the mountain with a scaffold, I don't know if you experimented much with the speaker bottoms ... facing away and then towards ... the center of the room. But perhaps we vertical Cornwall wannabes could benefit from your experience if any.

If I moved my pine buffets to the left & right corners of my 18 foot wall, in order to place Cornwalls sideways on them, I would not be able to have the Cornwalls at a 45 degree angle ... see the dimensions of the Cornwalls and the buffets in the OP. I could have them at about a 20 degree angle, but that would mean that the front corners furthest from the room-center would be protruding over the front edge of the buffets. I mention this for two reasons:

1. The Cornwall's rear corners closest to the room-center would be close to the 18 foot wall, and the rear corners furthest from the room-center would be about a foot from the 18 foot wall. Would this suggest to the forum whether the bottom of my Cornwalls should point toward or away from the room-center?

2. I believe that Cornwall recommends Cornwalls to be as close to the corners of the room, to have the most bass-enhancement of the Heritage speakers. If I have my Cornwall speakers three feet above the floor, and toed-in about 20 degrees, should I be considering the need of a subwoofer to be added to the two-channel system?

Input to the above questions, and advice from those who have either elevated or sideways-positioned Cornwalls, would be appreciated.

[jamesV]

1. The Cornwall's rear corners closest to the room-center would be close to the 18 foot wall, and the rear corners furthest from the room-center would be about a foot from the 18 foot wall. Would this suggest to the forum whether the bottom of my Cornwalls should point toward or away from the room-center?

The object is to point to speakers to your listening location, usually a single seat called the sweet spot. In this location you would want to speakers at an angle that they would intersect just past your head.

2. I believe that Cornwall recommends Cornwalls to be as close to the corners of the room, to have the most bass-enhancement of the Heritage speakers. If I have my Cornwall speakers three feet above the floor, and toed-in about 20 degrees, should I be considering the need of a subwoofer to be added to the two-channel system?

That is why they're named Cornwall, as they can be placed into a CORNER or just on a flat WALL. Now you should hear more bottom end if placed into the corners but only you can decide if it is enough or YOU need a sub. People have different rooms and different likes so whatever you like run with it and enjoy.

James

[muel]

Those are interesting grills on your speakers, muel. How old are your Cornwalls? Also, any particular reason why you have the bottom of your speakers facing away from the center of the room, instead of facing towards the center of the room?

Those are 1968 Cornwalls with ALK crossovers that I got from Gilbert last year (Great guy to deal with! Really takes good care!). I guess a previous owner had oriented these for sitting on their side. They even have the logo so it is right side up with the speaker on its side. I don't know if it was ever done that way from the factory. Actually, in this picture I have them turned as far to the center as I can (which is not much). It sounded really bad so I pulled them out as close to the edge as I could and moved them to be more centered between the wall and the chimney chase. This improved things a lot but any sweet spot is about 5 or 6 feet over my head at this point! Not good! I'd like to try tilting the speakers to point down towards the seating area but I'm afraid they could slide right off the cabinet. I plan on tacking a thin strip of wood to act as a stop for the bottom edge.

I'd like to try a lot of different positions with those Cornwalls but it is tough standing on the top of a step ladder trying to move a 100 lb speaker! Gee whiz... imagine if I decide I want to swap them! Perhaps in a few years I can move them down to the floor when the kids are old enough to not beat them up with their toys. I think taking care of the room with some strategically placed acoustic panels will help a lot too. The room has such a bad echo that you notice it even when trying to have a conversation.

Luckily, I have another pair in my office system that is a much better arrangement. In there they are about the same distance apart from each other as they are from the side wall. As far as bass it is just right!

You might come up with positioning that sounds great on your first try but I think you are going to have to experiment some and be willing to move your furniture around in a few different configurations. Honestly you will never know until you try! The bad news is that you might move everything back where you had it at the very start but then you will know. Trust your ears and don't worry about it! JamesV is certainly right... run with whatever you like!

[Mighty Favog]

1. Does anyone have experience with placing their Cornwalls so high above the floor?

No idea where I picked up this image but I think it answers part of the question.

That's Wendy (formerly Walter) Carlos' home studio.