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What's up with pathetic Klipsch dealers?


jcm

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I have been to three mid-level stores recently (meaning better than Best Buy but not the kind of place you would buy Palladiums), and all three have had the same issues:



  • They had practically nothing in stock from Klipsch, despite being an authorized reseller. What was in stock was old and unsightly. The last guy only had one pair of RF-82's, the other stores had RF-62s or lower. One dealer on the Klipsch web site was just plain gone. No store left.
  • They did not hook the speakers up to decent equipment. Not even separates. One place had exactly one Pioneer receiver hooked up to the RB-82s and I couldn't hear the speakers for all the problems with the Receiver. I have RB-81's at home that sounded better than the 82's because I actually use decent pre-pros/amps.
  • In each case, the rep tried to talk me out of buying Klipsch in favor of some other brand. One guy told me that they hadn't sold a pair of Klipsches in years. Then why are you a reseller?!?


Nobody had the palladiums in stock, even the P-17Bs, even though they had much more expensive equipment by Paradigm et. al. They were all happy to order speakers for me, but only if you paid full price and agreed to a no-return policy. WHAT? You want me to buy $3000 in speakers without auditioning them? Even in the store? No thank you, I can use the Internet for that.



Is this a common experience for others? It is very frustrating that these so-called Klipsch dealers get to keep their name on the reseller list when they don't carry stock, and apparently don't even like horn speakers.



I have yet to find a dealer that even has a demo of a Palladium speaker, which I am keen to hear. I'd have to drive four hours to find such a dealer, and I live in a metro area (Austin) with over 1m people.



I noticed a thread from nearly a decade ago (http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/3996/27518.aspx#27518) where other people had the same experience. Nothing has apparently changed.

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jcm: First, welcome to the forum! It's good to have you here.

Unfortunately, the Klipsch dealers have always seemed to be the weakest link between Klipsch and its customers. Even before the economy tanked, this was true. However, since the economic downfall, many of the salon-type high-end audio dealers have dried up and blown away and such dealers were the ones that carried the Heritage and Reference Series systems and most likey would have also carried the Palladium Series. I no longer know where to go in Detroit to buy these. Best Buy has not been a good fit for Klipsch in my opinion because the attitude of the salespeople who work there seems to be to push customers towards other brands. As you said, many times the Klipsch products aren't even hooked up or displayed out of their boxes. I do not have an answer for you, but Klipsch needs to mend its relationship with its dealers if they want to continue to grow as a corporation, or even to stay in business. -Glenn

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Our town's last boutique shop that carried Klipsch is now gone; Best Buy is the only place you can find that sells the brand, and you of course cannot purchase any Heritage or top-of-the-line Klipsch there.

This makes me sad, but then again, there was a time in the 80's when I had to drive 200 miles to audition Fortes; fortunately, another store started carrying them locally with about a year, but it only lasted a couple more years after that. It seems to be a transitory market, with the average consumer not caring enough, or not having the budget to purchase higher-fi.

The internet has drastically changed this market, but I prefer being able to audition equipment, even though showroom listening is usually very dissimilar to the home environment.

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JCM,

I agree with your post. Unfortunately Paul is Dead, and the company is more geared towards selling the Chinese made speakers now then it is to sell the American made Heritage speakers as that is where the bread and butter of the company is. Just as sad and unfortunate, the majority of the younger generation is much more interested in boomy hip hop music and accuracy is not as prized as is the boom. Klipsch speakers were built for acuracy, and do not recreate the lower synthisized frequencies well, let alone in abundance or surplus, hence they are not sought after for these reasons by the kids selling them. They dont give a ... about a beutiful voice, sax, or reproduction of a kettle drum, they are more interested in SPL in synthasized frequencies then how much distortion is involved. I highly doubt that the dealers will ever see the hands on aproach that was taken by Paul either, how could they, those days are gone.

Roger

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That's funny, as the last salesperson was trying to sell me on Paradigms, and when I had him A/B switch between the RF-82s and the Paradigms, the bass disappeared and the overall volume dropped by about 6-8dB. True, the bass was muddy and loose on the RF-82s because of the crap-@$$ receiver that was powering the speakers, but if I were a hip-hopper I would have put the Klipsches in my car and called it a day.

I remember a very good Klipsch dealer in Chicago that kept everything in stock, from the smallest of the Reference series to the top of the Heritage series. The amazing thing was that when you went from speaker to speaker (going up in size/price), you just got MORE. The sound quality didn't change, but the amount of bass and the overall amount of sound just kept building. By the time he got to the Khorns the sound was just amazing. I brought in my own discs for him to play, some of which were classical, others more modern, some with a LOT of bass. The Khorns did a fantastic job of all of them. Then we put on Saving Private Ryan, and the Khorns again delivered realistic sound, even in the opening battle scenes.

Truth be told, I use a JL Audio F113 sub with my Klipsches. That sub matches the Klipsches extremely well (oddly I was disappointed by the RT-12d). Together the reference system and the sub have some of the best sound I've heard for less than $20,000.

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Wow, I see some harsh words in here!

First of all, Paul was not a great salesman. A genius mind, for sure, but salesman/business man...not so much. Our sales guys, present and past, have earned the credit (and criticism) for any successes or failures in our dealer network.

Second, yes, the way people buy speakers has shifted dramatically. Internet and mass retail has all but killed the specialty dealer. I personally manage our dealer locator on Klipsch.com, and it saddens me every time one of our sales reps emails me to remove a list of them due to bankruptcy/going out of business. The ones who are still in business may not be able to afford to stock all models for demo purposes. We've had several sell out their floor models just to pay their bills. Sad indeed.

And last, our sales and training guys spend most of their days on the road visiting dealers and helping where they can, and we in marketing do what we can to spread the word and provide materials on a minimum budget.

There is no magic wand to fix what is going on in the industry. It is true we've had to make adjustments to find our "bread and butter," sure, but in doing so we have been able to continue to make the speakers that made us who we are. And they will be availble through us directly (with a 30-day money back guarantee) for as long as we possibly can. And our support staff is still housed internally, and can assist with set up issues, questions, and even just to chat about speakers. Our bread and butter allows for that as well.

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I remember a very good Klipsch dealer in Chicago that kept everything in stock, from the smallest of the Reference series to the top of the Heritage series

If the name of the place was Simply Stereo in Hoffman Estates, that place rocks. I walked out of a place closer to me and went there and was treated 1000 times better as soon as I walked in. They are the ones that I ordered my RF-83 setup from and if by chance I buy any new Heritage speakers it will be from them.

James

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If all my Heritage was not so old (read that as vintage please...) I could be a "salon dealer".

Hello!!! Please to meet you!! "C'mon in! Serious HT? 3 pairs of Cornwalls right here in the living room!! Serious death defying vintage rock & roll music? Let's head to the Man Cave and you can face the Wall of Voodoo's K'horns, Belles and Heresy's!!! Wanna' be sophisticated and cultured? Need to convince your spouse that Klipsch is the key to happiness? Check the mint rosewood K-horns and LaScalas in the MBR!! Need a more practical modern example of use with video games and just wanna' see what Klipsch Heritage will do in a small room? Let's head to my son's room and catch the X-box over the K'horns and Heresy's!!! By Appointment Only with Her Majesty, Queen SWMBO!!! LOLOL!!!

(beer is free, champagne is extra...)

[H]

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And they will be availble through us directly (with a 30-day money back guarantee) for as long as we possibly can. And our support staff is still housed internally, and can assist with set up issues, questions, and even just to chat about speakers. Our bread and butter allows for that as well.

I don't think that most folks understand the demise of the boutique "brick-and-mortar" retail industry. Most firms are going to direct marketing via the web. Just look at Gateway Computers - they used to have direct stores in major Metro areas so that you could get the "touch and feel". Now it seems as if the Dell direct-marketing model is the most prevalent (i.e., Outlaw Audio, etc.). Even the higher-end "home theater" shops are on life support everywhere I look.

Higher-end specialty products (i.e., most people don't buy La Scalas for their home theaters, etc.) are now moving based on word-of-mouth, on-line sales, and chance encounters at displays/exhibits/commercial venues, etc. Brick-and-mortar looks to be a sure-fire way to lose money nowadays, unless you're doing business at Sam's Club..

Maybe one way to sell higher-end speakers is to provide them in places where people will see/hear them, (such as Harley shops and boutique hair salons).

Chris

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I live in Manhattan and although I can buy Reference or Icon lines easily here, the nearest Heritage dealer is nearly 140 miles away. I have owned Chorus II's for 20 years but have never heard a pair of Khorns, La Scalas or obviously any of the Pallladium line. That's sad. [:$]

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So it seems obvious that there is a problem with Klipsch customers being unable to audition Klipsch speakers. I have read a number of reasons why this is so, but I have yet to hear a good solution!


The fact is that nobody spends over $2,000 on a pair of speakers based on somebody else's recommendation alone. Any audiophile knows that just because Stereophile likes a speaker doesn't mean that YOU will. Audiophile magazines simply love everything that Wilson makes. I hate every one of them.


Offering a 30-day return on a pair of speakers that arrive in a crate is not a solution, either. These are not small speakers, and they can take several people to move around, especially if your listening area is not on the first floor of your house. Repacking and re-shipping them is a lot of work. Plus, if I'm ordering speakers sight-unseen over the Internet, then I don't think full retail pricing is appropriate. There is no dealer to get paid here, no brick-and-mortar storefront to upkeep, and the buyer has to deal with returns. So pass on the dealer pricing to the customer if they are willing to deal with the hard work.


So, on to solutions. I think having Klipsch show up at audiophile shows is good. Anything that pits a Klipsch speaker against other speakers is good, as long as the proper pre-pro/amps are used. What else?

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I have mentioned this before and it applies here too. Many people DO audition Klipsch product -- in movie theaters--. If Klipsch were to market in those theaters I think they could capture a lot of product interest. Many companies market in theaters these days. How many can say, "the sound you hear comes from us"? Have a Klipsch booth follow the hot rod car shows. That is the stereo generation and they often have funds, even in this economy. Sell direct or whatever. Just use your heads.

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I hate to disagree with the crowd here, especially because I love my Klipsch Heritage speakers, but what most people say they want is not what they really want. Out of all the people on this forum that own a Heritage series set of speakers, how many purchased them new? My bet is few.

These speakers can easily last 50 years. That's not good if you're the seller because you always need to try to saturate more and more of the public.

Second, the speakers sell used for a very small fraction of the new price and still, you can easily get them "good as new." That's bad for the seller. How many 30 year old cars can you buy for 20 cents on the dollar and be confident they are as good as when they left the factory floor?

Third, the speakers are big. That's not good. Most people don't want big, and these days, you can get some fairly big sound out of little computer speakers. No, the will not shake vases off of shelves in the room down the hall, but most people really aren't into rocking that hard in their homes.

Heritage is a dying breed. There is plenty of used stuff to stay in the market and satisfy audio freaks for decades. I suspect the coming demise of the Heritage line, with the possible exception that Klipsch will custom-build them and stock absolutely none (that might be its policy now), making sure that they only go out of the way and build to request for a handsome margin. I don't expect slim profit margins in the Heritage line like the little computer speakers, etc.

Finally, there is a reason, as Amy says, that all the Klipsch dealers are continually folding. This is the computer age. The entertainment value of the internet has basically replaced music as any serious form of entertainment, like in the 1960's and 1970's. Everyone who tries to make it in the audio business quickly learns how tough it is these days. That's why they don't last. Even guys on here who build or sell mods almost are forced to do it as a garage hobby for a few extra bucks. There is not enough market to take a serious stab at it and incur much investment, overhead, marketing costs, etc.

If it wasn't for computer speakers and surround sound at Best Buy, Klipsch would have been defunct years ago (at least, that's my bet). I think Klipsch is doing it right by getting in the mainstream game - even if it means not touting the giant wildebeast speakers our small cult still loves to jam to.

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So it seems obvious that there is a problem with Klipsch customers being unable to audition Klipsch speakers. I have read a number of reasons why this is so, but I have yet to hear a good solution!

The fact is that nobody spends over $2,000 on a pair of speakers based on somebody else's recommendation alone. Any audiophile knows that just because Stereophile likes a speaker doesn't mean that YOU will. Audiophile magazines simply love everything that Wilson makes. I hate every one of them.

Offering a 30-day return on a pair of speakers that arrive in a crate is not a solution, either. These are not small speakers, and they can take several people to move around, especially if your listening area is not on the first floor of your house. Repacking and re-shipping them is a lot of work. Plus, if I'm ordering speakers sight-unseen over the Internet, then I don't think full retail pricing is appropriate. There is no dealer to get paid here, no brick-and-mortar storefront to upkeep, and the buyer has to deal with returns. So pass on the dealer pricing to the customer if they are willing to deal with the hard work.

So, on to solutions. I think having Klipsch show up at audiophile shows is good. Anything that pits a Klipsch speaker against other speakers is good, as long as the proper pre-pro/amps are used. What else?

jcm,

TThe best solution to what you are asking is right here on the forum. There are nany here that will allow others to listen to there system. That is the best way to experience some of Klipschs finest offerings.

Roger

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