K-24 to K-28 swap?

[Donkeyshins]

Is there any benefit to be had by swapping K-24 woofers for K-28 woofers in a standard (well, with Crites Ti tweeters) Heresy II? I understand the K-28 is nominal 4 Ohms compared to the K-24 nominal 6 Ohms and the T/S parameters are a bit different, but essentially the HII and HIII boxes are the same. Would I end up with too much bass (not really a problem with a Heresy, now is it?)?

Thanks!

-D

[Malcolm]

You are not going to end up with significantly more bass. The box is the major limiting factor. 3dB down point of all the Heresys is about 60 Hz.

[Donkeyshins]

You are not going to end up with significantly more bass. The box is the major limiting factor. 3dB down point of all the Heresys is about 60 Hz.

So no benefit to this then, or simply I wouldn't have to worry about too much bass?

-D

[Ironsave]

Donkey,

I have H1s.

Replacing the woofers with K 28s might improve the bass response a bit.

My opinion is you are better off using that money towards a good subwoofer.

Good Luck.

[mark1101]

You need walls made of corn to get more bass.

[Ironsave]

You need walls made of corn to get more bass.

I agree; or a really good sub.

BTW.....

Stop making me obsess about CWs...... []

Someday.... I will own a pair...... Must.... have..... Corns.....

[Malcolm]

Replacing the K-22 in H1s might be an improvement. Again, 3dB down point doesn't change significantly. But the added xmax will allow you to play louder before the woofer reaches its physical limit.

As alluded to above, the solution for added bass for all the Heresys is a subwoofer.

[Groomlakearea51]

Replacing the K-24 with the K-28, and replacing the tweeter & midrange horn to motor board gaskets will make a significant difference. When I rebuild a pair of H-I's or H-II's, I generally replace the woofer with either the K-28's or Bob's CW-1228. As far as "there is no solution except a sub", I respectfully disagree in principle. A properly sealed and placed Heresy with fresh caps, and a good woofer driver will get down to it's advertised 45-50Hz. I will agree that it is not as strong as the Cornwall, etc. but for a small room, or "nearfield listening", they will do the job with grace and style. Then again, I play my music "flat" - as in no extra treble, bass, etc. Again, they key to the Heresy is simply making sure it's sealed as in no "leaks".... Anyone with a new pair of Heresy-III's will attest to just how much bass is available with the K-28.... [Y]

[Ironsave]

Replacing the K-24 with the K-28, and replacing the tweeter & midrange horn to motor board gaskets will make a significant difference. When I rebuild a pair of H-I's or H-II's, I generally replace the woofer with either the K-28's or Bob's CW-1228. As far as "there is no solution except a sub", I respectfully disagree in principle. A properly sealed and placed Heresy with fresh caps, and a good woofer driver will get down to it's advertised 45-50Hz. I will agree that it is not as strong as the Cornwall, etc. but for a small room, or "nearfield listening", they will do the job with grace and style. Then again, I play my music "flat" - as in no extra treble, bass, etc. Again, they key to the Heresy is simply making sure it's sealed as in no "leaks".... Anyone with a new pair of Heresy-III's will attest to just how much bass is available with the K-28....

Groom,

My H1s are cap refreshed, and sealed properly. I asked Bob Crites this question on Ebay; "Will I see significant bass reponse improvement from the woofers?"

He said I would see a little improvement, but due to the limitations of the cabinet size; etc it would not be a great improvement.

I reccomend the OP do the same cap refreshment and seal his cabs and spend the rest on a sub. I am curious about horn gasket replacement. (Where to find?)

I agree that these speakers are capable of producing enough bass around 45-50hz. [Y]

Depending on the OPs musical preferences.... A sub is needed (most likely) as most of the newer music has bass that goes down into mid 20hz.

I love my Heresies, but they just cannot do what they can with a sub connected properly, Most of the music I listen to has valuable content that extends down to 25-28hz....

A cheap sub will lessen the experience, but a good sub will blend and augment their sound. (I have had both. I KNOW the difference).

So.... I respectfully disagree. A good sub makes a big difference...... []

[HarryO]

Having heard both side by side I have to say the 28 has deeper bass and more punch. Period. Yes, cabinet volume is a limiting factor but the added bass of the 28 is worth the bucks IMHO

I'm not a huge Heresy Fan but will say the later version makes them tolerable to me.

[Ironsave]

Having heard both side by side I have to say the 28 has deeper bass and more punch. Period. Yes, cabinet volume is a limiting factor but the added bass of the 28 is worth the bucks IMHO

I'm not a huge Heresy Fan but will say the later version makes them tolerable to me.

Well, I have not heard them both side by side. I wish I could afford $200 to try it out......

That being said, I believe my heresies with the sub sound as good or better........

Anyone selling used K- 28s? []

[BEC]

The K-28 is a 4 ohm woofer. The Heresy 1 and 2 are both set up to use an 8 ohm woofer. If you put the K-28 in there, given no changes to the crossover, the woofer will have about 3 db more output relative to the squawker and tweeter output. That makes the bass louder. Since the impedance changes, the crossover is no longer operating at the right frequency when rolling off the bass, so you should also make changes to the crossover when you use the K-28.

Bob Crites

[djk]

"The Heresy 1 and 2 are both set up to use an 8 ohm woofer."

Are you sure about that?

Every Heresy II I have ever seen, the woofer measure less than 4 ohms DC.

The type E network uses a 2.5mH, the Heresy II uses a 2.5mH and a 68µF cap.

It would seem that you could just drop the 4R K28 into a Heresy II, and into a type E Heresy by adding the 68µF capacitor.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h69/ecir38/klipsch/TypeE.jpg

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/storage/6/970942/HII%20Crossover%20Schematic%20Updated.JPG

[BEC]

Dennis,

Here is a DCR test on a K-24E that just happened to be handy. Notice it is about 6.3 ohms. This also agrees with the published specs Klipsch has provided for the K-24 and K-22. They are both 8 ohm woofers. The in cabinet impedance of both the K-24 and the K-22 will be around 11 ohms. I think the in cabinet impedance of the K-28 would be around half that, perhaps 5 to 6 ohms. Anyway, if that in cabinet impedance is about 6 ohms, the inductor should in the type E should change to about 1.25mH or so to maintain the 700 hz crossover point when using the K-28. Similar changes shoud be made to account for this decrease in impedance in the H2 using the K-28.

Bob Crites

[BEC]

Here is a K-28 in case anyone wanted to see DCR on it. I think the K-28 is essentially just a K-24 with a 4 ohm voice coil. Same magnet assembly and frame at least.

Bob Crites

[djk]

I guess I've never seen the Eminence K24E, the ones I saw in the 80s were Klipsch built K24K, and they were under 4R.

[BEC]

Dennis, I don't have a K-24K handy to measure, but this is from Klipsch.

Bob Crites

[djk]

My only experience with the Heresy II was with the ones I sold in the period from 85~88, and those seemed to be 4R.

When they blew up I (I sold a lot of these to nightclubs) would remove the woofer cap and put in a K22E.

I could go by the local Up-Chuck Cheese pizza joint and check the pair they have.

Side note: I love the template they used for the parameters. Every driver has a 1mH Le and 4mm x-max. Did they measure a defective K33E?

[colterphoto1]

through 3 models of K22 and into the K24, the Heresy woofers got weaker and weaker. K28 is a huge increase in bass for the same sized box. I've had H and H III and it's no sub but much closer to the sound of a Cornwall that most would imagine. That's one reason that Klipsch made an upgrade kit for H II-> H III conversions.

[HarryO]

through 3 models of K22 and into the K24, the Heresy woofers got weaker and weaker. K28 is a huge increase in bass for the same sized box. I've had H and H III and it's no sub but much closer to the sound of a Cornwall that most would imagine. That's one reason that Klipsch made an upgrade kit for H II-> H III conversions.

I had the pleasure of hearing Michaels HIIIs sitting next to his CW3s. I listened to both that day.

The HIII is a surprising upgrade over older Heresys. It has ample bass and is quite a nice speaker.

I've also heard the HIII upgrade kit and it does work. Good upgrade.

The CW3 IMHO is a step backwards from the true Heritage to my ears. The K-600/601 was borderline at best but the K-701 in the 3 just didn't "cut it" for me.

I really enjoyed the HIII but I kept waiting for the CW3 to come alive. It didn't. It's still a good sounding speaker but IMHO a step backwards.

JMHO which means nothing.

Harry