DrTUBE Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Hello all HERESY I owners, I have been recently asked again about a modification I have posted as far as 2006 about the modification of the E-2 Xover I have done on my Heresy I HBR, so I thought it would be interesting for some of you to see what it is. This mod is intended to smooth the impedance curve in the 3000-5000Hz region, in order to give an easier load to the amp, and regular frequency response, by removing the quite "squawky-trebly" tone often heard on the Heresy I. You will find all the information in attached file (.pdf) - as you will see, it is simple and the result makes it worthwhile to test... Best regards - DrTUBE. heresy F and Z curves 13-11-2005 .pdf heresy F and Z curves 13-11-2005 .pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Thank you for posting this; I will have a look! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Interesting. I have also found that E/4500 or E2/4500 crossover mod works in the much the same fashion. The E2 crossover of course is designed to work with the late model Heresy-I's (post late 1983) that used the K-24 woofer and the K-53/701 midrange. One of the harshness problems seems also to stem from the age of the caps on the crossover itself. Just replacing the caps, and probably the K-77's diaphragm also generally solves those problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTUBE Posted August 4, 2010 Author Share Posted August 4, 2010 Hi Groomlakearea51, There is around a 10dB gap between the tweeter and the woofer when I RTA measured it, as I recall : this not harshness, but unbalanced frequency response. Well, you can change any cap or diaphragm, but I think you may waste your time and your money, I am afraid... A friend has a pair of 1984 Heresy I and the problem is the same. Is it a general consensus ? Anyone here has made frequency response measurements (1W/1m) ? It is said (but is it right ?) that the level of the squawker and tweeter were set to match as possible the level of a Cornwall, as the Heresy was intended at the start to be used as a center speaker between a Cornwall pair, and so the woofer was left "trying to do its best"... I seems strange to me but would be somewhat in accordance with my measurement. May be a Klipsch History Specialist from the forum could confirm or correct ? A+! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted August 5, 2010 Share Posted August 5, 2010 On the history of the Heresy's, etc. take a look at: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/103886.aspx On the E-4500 "mod", I normally use the CT-125 (Bob Crites) tweeter rather than the K-77. That also smooths it out. Most of my listening is in a designed and "treated" room, and the Heresy's are approximately 52 inches off the ground, in corners. Rather than play with the response curves, I generally follow the best instrument available for my listening.... my ears!! LOL!!! The other thing that relates to the issues discussed is the late heresy-I's use of the K-24 woofer and the K-53 midrange, which by most accounts and observations was not a very good combination. The late H-I's, and the H-II's generally did not have the same "fluidity" or "smoothness" of the original K-77/ K55/ K22 combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KdAgain Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I am going to do the DrTube mods to my Heresy 1 (1983) heresy's and have some questions on the components: 1. The 12 ohm resistor. On similar mods I have seen 20 watt resistors called out. Would that be appropriate here? 2. For the 15 MFD 250 volt capacitor. A. Is electolytic okay or should it be non polarized? B. Is it worthwile to go to some of the more 'Audiophile' caps, or is general purpose okay? c. Any suggestion as to the particular caps to use? There are literally thousands available. I'm going to be ordering some other small parts from Digikey.com. Thanks very much for your help. Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 "The 12 ohm resistor. On similar mods I have seen 20 watt resistors called out. Would that be appropriate here?" How big is your amplifier? I would use a resistor wattage that is at least 20%~25% of the amplifier, ie:a 25W resistor for a 100W amplifier. "For the 15 MFD 250 volt capacitor. A. Is electolytic okay or should it be non polarized? B. Is it worthwile to go to some of the more 'Audiophile' caps, or is general purpose okay? c. Any suggestion as to the particular caps to use? There are literally thousands available. I'm going to be ordering some other small parts from Digikey.com. " If electrolytic, it must be a non-polar type. A film type is preferred. Digi-Key does not stock anything suitable, I suggest Madisound. https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=123&products_id=160 https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=356_86_89&products_id=1013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KdAgain Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 djk - Thanks very much for your helpful post. I'll go ahead and get my other parts from Digikey, and go to Madisound for the crossover parts. It will be helpful to have the 20-25% rule of thumb for resistors. Thanks for the links on the caps and resistors. I notice the 15 Mfd Carli cap is 150 volts. Trust you feel this is high enough. Also since you didn't touch my question on "Audiophile caps" I also trust it's probably not worthwile to 'go there'. Sure a lot of Voodo in the topic - almost as bad as speaker wires and power cords! Thanks again, Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 The stock caps are Mylar, the Carli 15µF is of similar quality. A typical 200W amplifier runs on ±80V or so, a 150V cap is more than adequate. It might be worthwhile to upgrade to polypropylene. While the more expensivecaps are better, there is a point of diminishing return. The Bennic polypropylene caps at Madisound are a good value without breaking the bank. https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=122&products_id=134 (for the 2µF) https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=122&products_id=133 (for the 2µF+15µF) I would also consider replacing the woofer cap with a new one, they tend to dry up over time. https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=122&products_id=120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTUBE Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 I am going to do the DrTube mods to my Heresy 1 (1983) heresy's and have some questions on the components: 1. The 12 ohm resistor. On similar mods I have seen 20 watt resistors called out. Would that be appropriate here? 2. For the 15 MFD 250 volt capacitor. A. Is electolytic okay or should it be non polarized? B. Is it worthwile to go to some of the more 'Audiophile' caps, or is general purpose okay? c. Any suggestion as to the particular caps to use? There are literally thousands available. I'm going to be ordering some other small parts from Digikey.com. Thanks very much for your help. Rod Hi KdAgain, 1/ The 12 ohms resistor can be 7W wirewound standard, or a 11 or 17W if you intend to often use your Heresy at maximum rating. On mine, I used 2 3W paralleled carbon resistor, and my tube amps are 70Wrms. If you have 20W resistor on hand, it's OK, of course. 2/ For the 15µF 250V capacitor : A/ use a polyester cap - from the Bennic (which I use satisfactorily), Visaton or Monacor brand, for example - rather than electrolytic of any kind. It's not a by-pass cap like the 33µF lo-pass filter of the woofer, where an electrolytic is convenient, because its high frequency losses have no influence. Here the highs pass through this 15µF, so it has to be from a better quality than electrolytic. B/ do not waste your money : standard grade like Bennic or Monacor are OK. Nothing critical here. C/ I use the Bennic brand because these caps are nice (yellow), well built, accurate in value and... cheap. When Bennic are not available, I switch to Monacor, which are the same good quality and price, but just less nice (grey), that's all... But you can find other good brands depending on your location (I am in France). A+! DrTUBE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfelliot Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Is this mod applicable to an older Heresy I with the E-1 crossover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KdAgain Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 djk & DrTube, Based on your recommendations I went ahead and ordered the resistor and caps from Madisound. I got all new Bennic Poly caps for the crossovers while I was at it. Did get Poly for the 33 Mfd but guess I could have saved some money on Electrolytic there. I'm really looking forward to trying out these mods. Bet I'll be able to put my treble tone control back up a bunch! Thanks to both of you for all your help on this. Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 hello / Salut Though I' ve been reading a lot of subjects in this so good forum, i just got registered by today. So first of all let me say I am impressed by all the knowledge, kindness and sympathy of the members. I am a french owner of Klipsch Heresy I (1984) powered by an Electrocompaniet ECI-1 and the source is a Madrigal Proceed PCD. Those are old materiels but working fine... I got the amplifier recaped last month. Now my concern is about this mod by DrTUBE (salut toubib) My question is does this mod apply to my heresy as the tweeter is NOT a K77M but a K77. So am I supposed to go for it or not ? Thanks to all of you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pio Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 hello / Salut Though I' ve been reading a lot of subjects in this so good forum, i just got registered by today. So first of all let me say I am impressed by all the knowledge, kindness and sympathy of the members. I am a french owner of Klipsch Heresy I (1984) powered by an Electrocompaniet ECI-1 and the source is a Madrigal Proceed PCD. Those are old materiels but working fine... I got the amplifier recaped last month. Now my concern is about this mod by DrTUBE (salut toubib) My question is does this mod apply to my heresy as the tweeter is NOT a K77M but a K77. So am I supposed to go for it or not ? Thanks to all of you no problem, i have exactly same drivers in my 84 heresys, k77 + k53 + k22 with e-2 crossovers. best regards. Pio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Thank you so much Pio. !!! In fact i Had already done the mods and wanted to know if I did well as the tweeter was a different model. Now another thing concerning the damping of the closet. I have read in different forum taht some did it and some did not. What do you think about It. I have already done some mods as: silicone isolation of the inside box and foam reenforcement of the back panel with a 16mm second panel replacement of the cable plugs ready to go when I will get back my amplifier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 i have exactly same drivers in my 84 heresys, k77 + k53 + k22 with e-2 crossovers. That is more of a Heresy 1.5. Not an original and not an HII. The K53nud won't seem quite as forward as the honkin' big K55. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pio Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) i have exactly same drivers in my 84 heresys, k77 + k53 + k22 with e-2 crossovers.That is more of a Heresy 1.5. Not an original and not an HII. The K53nud won't seem quite as forward as the honkin' big K55. Bruce yes Bruce, in fact 1.5, some people prefer k701/k53 combo, check this pdf please (thanks to Radiogram), best regards. Pio MyCornscalaExperience.pdf Edited June 7, 2016 by yo0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pio Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) Thank you so much Pio. !!! In fact i Had already done the mods and wanted to know if I did well as the tweeter was a different model. Now another thing concerning the damping of the closet. I have read in different forum taht some did it and some did not. What do you think about It. I have already done some mods as: silicone isolation of the inside box and foam 1JPG.JPG reenforcement of the back panel with a 16mm second panel 2.JPG replacement of the cable plugs 3.jpg ready to go when I will get back my amplifier 5.JPG about damping the cabinet, i did, but you sacrifice woofer efficiency and get a very small increase in low-end response, the best advice, leave the cabinets empty, and put the heresy in corners floor, just tilt up the front a bit. by the way, what is your opinion about the change in sound with the crossover mod? best regards Pio Edited June 7, 2016 by yo0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Thank you to all of you for giving me advices and comments. To Pio actually I didn't have the chance yet to test it as I don't have my amplifier for the moment... It is in the hands of a specialist who is changing the capacitors, resistances and some other components as the amplifier is 22 years old and with no doubt, needs a little bit of "refreshment"... And,same thing with my cd player where there's been a little problem with a zener and a regulator gone bad, provoking the death of the display... As it is impossible to get a replacement display, my friend is building a new one that can fit it the player (madrigal proceed PCD). I guess I will get the two items back at the end of june and I am longing so much for it, as it is very hard for me not to ear any music for such a long time... I will give a report as soon as All is in its place in my home. Thanks for your concern once again Georges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 ...And I should have ask in my previous post ... did you have the crossover mods in your speakers and, if so, what do you think about it ? Georges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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