Jubilee Question

[Vital]

Looking at you guys with the Jubilees, it looks like you are using a 2 way version with just the mid horn on top. Why is this and arent you losing the highs without the tweeter and horn for the highs? Why arent people using the 3-way version that's listed in the pro section?

[PrestonTom]

It's a good question.

In fact, there is one fellow who is using the 3-way version (from the Pro setup). Most are using two-way setups. Usually the HF is the K-402 horn (the big one, about 39 in wide), a few of us (myself included) are using the smaller K-510 horn (about 15 in wide). Still others are using non-Klipsch mids and highs in three-way setups.

Why a two way and not a three-way setup? That is trickier. The original vision from PWK was for a two way system, with its own advantages (easier to get the crossover right etc). Since the systems are not beng run 12 hours a day and at very loud (auditorium) levels, the two-way will have good reproduction with minimal distortion etc. For an auditorium, it would be asking a for quite a bit to do this with a two way.

Regarding the bandwidth, there is no loss of high freqeuncy response in the two-way version. In fact the driver for the tweeter (from the three-way) is paired with the horn (K-402) of the midrange (from the three-way) and there is plenty of high fequency extension.

Are you contemplating taking the plunge?

[Coytee]

arent you losing the highs without the tweeter and horn for the highs? Why arent people using the 3-way version that's listed in the pro section?

As Tom said, though we might be using the midrange horn, the drivers have been swapped and we are using the tweeter driver (K69) on this horn so we're not losing anything.

Regarding 2-way verses 3-way.... I understand that PWK wanted to take the Khorn back to a 2-way program. The reason the 3-way exists in the cinema offerings is simply higher output. I am here to tell you that inside the home, you do NOT need any extra output that the 3-way might have. The 2-way version is way more than enough to make you run out of the room. I've been 30' away from mine, feeding them with some reasonable solid state amps and put on one of the live dvd's from Rush. We got to the drum solo part and I put the volume to stupid loud.... and got to this 30' distance and could still feel the impact from the initial drumkicks hitting me. When I had my Khorns, I would have had to be maybe 10' away to get this same "flapping of the pants". I will add that this was exceedingly loud and I would not want to be in the same room with them. Still, it was kind of cool even if it only lasted 30 seconds [A]

The main purpose for 2-way as I understand it is simply losing a crossover point. This is something that took me a while to figure out and put into words. Bottom line, the Jubilee's sound more coherent when I'm 10' away from them. My Khorns took maybe 30 feet before they had similar "point source" coherency. The sound bubble blends into a single bubble much much closer with these and I've come to learn that it's the 2-way format that is primarily responsible for this. Some of us (me included) also have signal alignment in our active crossovers. I've since proven to myself that this signal alignment is WAY LESS responsible for this coherency. I tried an experiement once and jacked the delay around to the point I was hearing echos. I tried various settings but as long as I was not intentionally making it echo (delays of 3 seconds or stupid numbers like that) I simply could not "lose" that coherency that the 2-way format gives.

[Guest " "]

two way works better for smaller listening venues.

[Coytee]

two way works better for smaller listening venues.

Ok, let me see if I understand this.... you said what I said. I used 500 words and you used eight []

Any questions as to why my wife says I talk too much?

[]

[sunburnwilly]

Why not the 4 way version ?

[Vital]

Are you contemplating taking the plunge?

Yes I am... I have been running RF-7s for over seven years and have just picked up a pair of Chorus lls and they have just blown me away the more I listen to them. So instead of "working" my way up with La Scalas or Khorns, may as well just get to the end where I know I'll have to go anyway lol.

Thanks for the info guys, guess I'll call klipsch later and talk about my options as far as finish and time to build them and all that.

[Coytee]

I'll call klipsch later and talk about my options as far as finish and time to build them and all that

Tut tut tut.... email Roy Delgado at roy.delgado@klipsch.com

He is the only one you want to discuss this with and then follow his directions to the letter. Once you make up your mind as to your direction, he will get you in contact with the proper people in the ordering process and they of course, will take your money.

Then... the hard part (waiting) begins [Y]

Are you debating active or passive?

[Coytee]

Why not the 4 way version ?

Cause we want it to sound good? [<)]

[colterphoto1]

When you get speakers this efficient and clear, you want to keep the system simple, ie less crossover points, processing, and phase irregularities should be minimized. The simplest way to achieve the parametric eq and crossover that is required is to do it actively, prior to amplification.

I would not go the active route with Crown XTI amps again. I never listen to my Jubilees. Never. I have them and they are so hissy that I can't stand to use my setup. The EV DX38 would be the processor of choice, that's what Roy uses.

[sunburnwilly]

Why not the 4 way version ?

Cause we want it to sound good?

Soo , the addition of the mid bass horn and tweeter make them sound bad or is it a question of having a large enough room to get it to come together ?

[Me Loves Khorns]

I saw you are in Houston.

I live in Waco, a bit of a drive but not too terrible.

If you ever wanted to hear some before buying, I would be happy to let you have a listen to mine.

Paul

[Coytee]

Soo , the addition of the mid bass horn and tweeter make them sound bad or is it a question of having a large enough room to get it to come together

I don't know any technical answer so I'm merely presuming. That said, my guess is for indoor home use, the 2-way is simply STILL over-kill if one merely wants to look at raw output.

From my practical point of view, it took the Jubilee's in my corners for me to finally learn/understand the sonic benefits of fewer drivers. It has been my experience that they simply sound more coherent and 'together' from almost anywhere in the room. My Khorns sounded 'good' in this same room however, they really shined once I got about 30' away. There was a distinctly nicer, more coherent quality about their sound. This coherency as I understand it, wasn't achieved until the three drivers had enough time (therefore distance) to "blend together" and sound like a point source. Since the Jubilee is being used as a 2-way, they simply come together much sooner (therefore closer to the speaker).

If you have some LaScalas (edit) Belle's, you might try this.... carry just one of them outdoors. Put something on them and hit the mono switch (though I doubt the mono switch really matters). Start walking backward... or perhaps go 200' away and start walking forward. I'll contend to you that there will be a place that for me was again, maybe 25/30 feet (from my LaScalas outdoors) where they sound noticably more coherent and more like a point source than they do when you get closer.

I think this is in part, what some of these single driver guys love about their single driver speakers. Having never heard one I can't say that for sure but I think I finally get the logic of fewer drivers as being better for certain traits. Fortunately, even as a 2-way speaker, the Jubilee as designed by Roy with the K402/69 will cover the spectrum pretty well and sound killer while doing so.

[sunburnwilly]

Thanks for the explanation .

[Vital]

I saw you are in Houston.

I live in Waco, a bit of a drive but not too terrible.

If you ever wanted to hear some before buying, I would be happy to let you have a listen to mine.

Paul

Awesome Paul... thank you for the offer, maybe I can do that at some point when things slow down around here for me!

[Vital]

I'll call klipsch later and talk about my options as far as finish and time to build them and all that

Tut tut tut.... email Roy Delgado at roy.delgado@klipsch.com

He is the only one you want to discuss this with and then follow his directions to the letter. Once you make up your mind as to your direction, he will get you in contact with the proper people in the ordering process and they of course, will take your money.

Then... the hard part (waiting) begins

Are you debating active or passive?

Thanks! I'll email Roy and get this ball rolling... what do most people do, active or passive? What are the pros and cons of each? I have not thought about it at all yet to be honest.

[Coytee]

what do most people do, active or passive? What are the pros and cons of each? I have not thought about it at all yet to be honest.

I don't have my cheat cheat in front of me but I think in raw numbers, most of the owners have gone with active. Of those, some have bought the Crown Xti's as a good sounding cost effective solution and others have bought the ElectroVoice Dx38 (or perhaps different brand) active crossover.

I'm one with the Dx. The guys with the passives have their own reasons for going passive and some of the passive setups sound (in my mind) just as good as the active setup however, the one I'm specifically thinking of that is using a passive, has about 3X the cost involved. Meaning, you can buy a Dx for about $1,200 new (give/take). You can find one on Ebay for maybe $500/800 depending on your luck. He's got $3,000 in parts alone for his passives.

I'll let you decide that one!

One thing I found interesting.... if you do this...and later, want to upgrade further and perhaps try out the TAD 4002 driver on the large horn, if you have a Dx38 you can swap the TAD driver and reconfigure your active with new paramaters and you are done. When Rigma made this swap, he had to reconfigure his passives with some new parts to adjust for the new driver.

Also, regarding the XTi solution, I do not think the Xti guys can mix/match amps like Dx users can. I can put a solid state on my woofers and a tube amp on my HF horn. I can put just about any two amps together and gain match them inside the controls of the Dx. If you use an Xti amp, I think you are handcuffed to that amp BUT.... it is a more cost effective solution.

So in part it depends on how much you really want to spend upfront to get to where you might want to be. Going to Paul's to listen to his babies (slight pun intended) would be a good idea!

[dtel]

I don't have Jube bottoms but these are close in sensitivity, everything else is the same.

I would recommend the EV DX 38 also, after that almost any amps can be used, I use two little 35 WPC Crown D-75's, of course unlike Coytee I am not trying to peel the paint off the walls with decibels, I keep it below 120. []

[Coytee]

unlike Coytee I am not trying to peel the paint off the walls with decibels, I keep it below 120

lol [Y]