Beta Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 I sure could use some help. Does anyone have any thoughts or recommendations as to how one can reduce the"brightness" of the mid range horn in this speaker? All thegear I use is of adequate quality. My amp and preamp are solid state. I am utilizing a quality sub as well. I do not want to move to tubes. Walltreatments are not an option do to the WAF. I am simply trying to figure out if there is a tweak I can make to thespeakers themselves that will warm them up a bit? I absolutely love these Heresy IIIs at lower levels. However, as Ipush power into them, my ears quickly fatigue. I am at the point where Iam going to move them out of my system if I can't figure how to get them toproduce a warmer sound in their mid section at higher listening levels. Thank you kindly if anyone has any input on thissubject! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 More specifics on your equipment used will help. I have found that a simple change in your source can affect things drastically... while trying different DACs I experienced a lot of brightness with one, muffled distortion with another, and a couple that were somewhere in between. Actually, I am still looking for the "right one" but that is a story for another thread. Also, what is it that you are listening to the most? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 That is strange. How loud are you pushing them? What are you comparing them to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Please describe the characteristics of your listening room (i.e. bare floors, any curtains or drapes, book cases, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Brightness is often in the source itself! A lot of moden pop just can't stand higher SPL due to the compressed recording. Whatare you listenning to and how loudly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beta Posted September 7, 2010 Author Share Posted September 7, 2010 Thanks all for your replies. Much appreciated! My music preferences are quite diverse. However, I mostly listen torock and pop. In an attempt to acquire warmer mids, I have tweakedeverything in my rig from cables to DACs to components. I am fairlyconfident it's not a synergy issue. I have everything dialed in quitewell. Soundstage, separation, imaging, clarity etc. is nothing short of outstanding. I chose the Heresy III because of Klipsch reputation (right orwrong) of tending to be on the brighter side of the sound spectrum. Due tospace constraints and the WAF, I decided on the Heresy III over the CornwallIII. The Heresy sound stellar up to just shy of nine o'clock on the volume. However, nine o'clock on is fatiguing (that’s the best way I can describe it). Our living room doubles as my listening room. The room is 20' feet by14'. We have plenty of furniture, knick knacks etc. to break things up. It has tile flooring (yes a challenge) with a large area rug. The speakerssit on 24" high end tables on each side of an 8’ wide sofa and against oneof the 20' walls. I elevated the speakers because I have only oneoption for speaker placement. If I placethem on the floor, they sit below the sofa and are “cramped” between otherfurniture. Ceiling height directly above the speakers is 7' 5'' and it moves up to 9'8'' when it meets the other 20' wall (which the speakers face). We have a6' 2'' wide by 6' 8'' opening in that wall. This opening accesses our dining room and kitchen (also tile with arearug). The rest of this wall is taken upby a large 6’ 7’’ wide by 7’ tall sideboard and hutch. I am open to any mods or tweaks. I’mnot concerned about voiding the warranty. Thanks again for any thoughts or recommendations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 I have owned Heresy II's. They never sounded like you describe. I have 2005 Belles at the moment. Much as you don't want to hear this, It has to be an amplifier mismatch. Lots of poorly designed modern amplifers and receivers are voiced for cone speakers with a reticent midrange and these amplifers tend to blare when used with highly sensitive speakers at certain volume levels. Your Heresys are not reticent in the midrange and I recken they are simply high-lighting a tonal imbalance. I think when you advance your amplifer volume, maybe you are striking the exact worst case scenario of cross over and other distortion for your amplifer. With less sensitive speakers this little 'window' of bad sound from your amplifier wouldn't fall where you want to listen. Don't junk your speakers. See if you can borrow another amplifier - either s/s or tube so you can re-evaluate your speakers. How old are your speakers? Have you run them in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Guba Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 I own HIIIs and the mids are a joy. I listen to accoustic jazz mostly although some jazz rock from the 70s too. If you have some tone controls on the amp you may want to play with them. I think pop music tends to be bright so that may affect you. I used to have Infinity SM 102s and the HIIIs are actually less bright. Good luck Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Crumple up some kleenex and experiment placing it inside the horns. Play around with it. You may at least figure out if it's the tweeter or the squawker, and who knows, you might fix the brightness issue! I've never tried this, just thought of it this morning. It can't hurt, right? I can come up with tons of dumb solutions if left to my own devices... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Beta, As you can see from my system profiles, all of my preamps/amps are of the neutral/warmish variety. I too have a ton of tile in my main listening/HT room but with my chosen gear and few area rugs, I was able to tame the brightness to levels that are a joy to listen to for extended periods. Can you provide a list of your system profile so we can better help your situation? Toe-in or lack of can reduce or increase the brightness. Experiment with that also. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 You mention having problems with the volume control at 9 o/c or higher. Because of the way much equipment is designed, with the volume control at that position you could be driving your amp into clipping (it would be worth knowing the input sensitivity of the amp). More details about your amp and preamp would be helpful. Also, if you happen to have, or can borrow, a sound pressure level meter with which to take a reading at your listening position when the sound isn't to your liking, some potentially useful information may be gleaned. Where are you located? There may be folks nearby who can come over with other equipment to form the basis of comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beta Posted September 7, 2010 Author Share Posted September 7, 2010 Thanks everyone. I very much appreciate all of you taking the time to try to assist me. I am stumped on this one. I am located in the Los Angeles area. The tissue paper idea appears that it actually may not be that farfetched. I read a post somewhere about a gentleman who addressed a similar problem by taping a sheet of toilet paper across the mid horn. I am kind of embarrassed to admit this, but I was actually thinking of trying that. I have had the Hersey IIIs since January 2010. I have been trying to figure out this issue since then. Any thoughts on tube buffers and where and how I would incorporate same into my system? In the end, the problem could just be me. Maybe my hearing simply isn't a match for the speakers. The thing that really has me confused though is that these speakers are absolutely perfect in every way at relatively lower volume. I have listed below my current set up. Thanks again for any suggestions or ideas. Parasound Halo A21 amp Parasound Halo JC 2 preamp (no tone controls) Cambridge Audio 840C CDP MIT Shotgun S.1 XLRs Cambridge Audio 650T tuner MIT Shotgun S.1 RCAs Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2 MIT Shotgun S1.3 XLRs iPod classic Wadia 170 iTransport Channel Islands Audio VDC-9.0 power supply upgrade MIT Magnum Digital interconnect Kilpsch Heresy III MIT Shotgun S1.3 biwired speaker cables Polk Audio DSW microPRO 2000 subwoofer AQ Black Thunder subwoofer cables PS Audio Power Plant Premier PS Audio Power Plant Duet PS Audio Power Port Premier wall receptacle All power cords are PS Audio AC-5 Parasound Zbreeze fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 The tissue paper idea appears that it actually may not be that farfetched. I read a post somewhere about a gentleman who addressed a similar problem by taping a sheet of toilet paper across the mid horn. I am kind of embarrassed to admit this, but I was actually thinking of trying that. I understand your embarassment. You wouldn't be the first person to suffer public ridicule for following my advice. It's a leap of faith you're considering. It's OK, come on over to my side. I can offer a plethora of unconventional, weird, and (considered by some) insane suggestions. In the end, the problem could just be me. Maybe my hearing simply isn't a match for the speakers. The thing that really has me confused though is that these speakers are absolutely perfect in every way at relatively lower volume. This is highly probable. If this is indeed the case, the kleenex belongs in your ear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Beta, My receiver has an EQ for each speaker. I can dial down the mids if necessary. I have twaeked this over months, and have arrived at settings that suit me perfectly. I can run in "Direct Audio" mode which bypasses these settings, and do so quite often. I would suggest trying to do the same for at least a "band aid". It may be your pre; or the source material. (Mp3s under 320kbs sound distinctively worse. I have done A-B comparisons). I am not familiar with your equipment. As suggested, I suspect the issue lies there somewhere. I have had HI s for almost a year, and have never felt fatigued after listening at any level for any length of time. Your speakers trump mine in every way. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nixonrsx Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 I see you are using an Ipod, Im not sure what format you are downloading in, but if your not downloading in the highest format, Klipsch speakers are unlistenable to with poor quality music. I can very easily tell a difference at higher volumes. I am pretty sure you are using the highest quality based on your knowledge and equipment list, but its something to look into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Beta, I can see from your gear choices(top notch) that they are probably not the culprit. You have some real nice toys. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 To rule out whether it's the speakers which are kicking out some nasty distortion products at a certain power level or higher, you need to connect another amp/preamp, receiver, etc, and increase the volume to produce the same sound pressure level at your listening position as the Parasound equipment. Alternatively, if you have a peak reading/storing multimeter, you can connect it (AC range) across your speaker terminals (each can be tested individually) and measure the voltage at which they start sounding poorly to you. Then, connect the other equipment and listen at the same voltage or higher. If the speakers still sound find, you at least will know that it's the Parasound amplification which is causing the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beta Posted September 7, 2010 Author Share Posted September 7, 2010 Thanks Bill. I will be the first to admit that I am no audio expert and that I possess only a rudimentary understanding how all this stuff actually works (from a technical perspective). Nonetheless, I tend to lean toward agreeing with your comment. I keep circling back to the conclusion that my issue is one of room/space/acoustic constraints and of personal preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 I thought we might be on to something when you mentioned Cambridge Audio in your line up. I have been testing a couple of DACs recently and found that while the Cambridge Audio DacMagic introduced a nicer clarity and soundstage it also brought with it a "brightness" that I would call harsh and fatiguing after a while. (that said, it is still my first string DAC) I'm wondering how the DacMagic DAC compares to what's in the 840C. I would think the 840c ought to be quite a step up. Are you are saying you hear this brightness all the time no matter the music or source at a given volume? I find that some recordings don't seem to bother me (most jazz sounds great) while some can grate on my nerves (some rock). In regards to volume - to a point anyway, the louder it is... the more I hear good and bad. I wonder if what you are hearing at higher volumes is still there at lower volumes but isn't objectional at that level. What do other people think who have heard your setup? Don't give up... it can be a lot of time and trouble to chase one variable at a time to see how things change when making a tweak or equipment change. If you are methodical and don't change more than one thing at a time you can learn a lot and when you share it here then we can all learn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beta Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 I have been testing a couple of DACs recently and found that while the Cambridge Audio DacMagic introduced a nicer clarity and soundstage it also brought with it a "brightness" that I would call harsh and fatiguing after a while. (that said, it is still my first string DAC) I'm wondering how the DacMagic DAC compares to what's in the 840C. I would think the 840c ought to be quite a step up. Muel, I have read several good reviews on the DacMagic. The 840C does have two digital inputs to utilize its DAC for additional sources. I have used the DAC in the 840C extensively. It is excellent. However, I recently acquired a Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2. This DAC, in my humble opinion, significantly outperfoms the DAC in the 840C on all fronts. I concur with you about recording quality. Poor recordings can be torture. Thank you kindly for your thoughts and comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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