more bass at a low volume

[vnzbd]

Hello all. I am looking for some feed back on how to achieve more bass at a low volume. My current system consists of a Marantz receiver used as a pre-amp, Emotiva XPA-5 amp, and Chorus IIs that have had the BC crossover cap updates. No sub is used. At higher volumes the bass is plenty but at lower volumes it seems to disappear on most tracks. On some disks it is present but I would say they were recorded bass heavy. The tone control on the Marantz does not give enough boost and I am not sure of what freq the bass is tied to. The mains are set to large and no sub is selected. A sub is not a prefered option as I live in a town house. Thanks for the feedback.

[Dennie]

Does the Marantz have a "Loudness" button?

My Pioneer does and I use it when I have company over and the volume is low.

Dennie

[vnzbd]

The Marantz does not have any type of loudness feature. I also have a Pioneer in my garage system also has a loudness switch and it works great at low volumes.

[davis419b]

The Marantz does not have any type of loudness feature. I also have a Pioneer in my garage system also has a loudness switch and it works great at low volumes.

Which Marantz reciever do you have ?

[vnzbd]

I am using the 8500 avr. It is several years old now with a bunch of sound processing options but none of them hit the spot.

[jacksonbart]

Actually I don't like loudness buttons, I prefer loudness dials that actually dial down the treble to reveal the bass which our ears at lower volumes is missing. If you Marantz has tone controls try dailing up the bass some and dialing back the treble. Unfortunatly a change to the main volume will dictate a change to each setting.

[vnzbd]

I will give that a try. The bass adjustment seemed almost non existant but with the combination of the treble I would expect more impact.

[wuzzzer]

Its a tough thing to get just right. I believe its called the Fletcher-Munson curve. Our ears are less sensitive to very low and very high frequencies played at low volumes. Adjust something so it sounds good for low volume listening and you probably won't like how it sounds when you turn it up.

Have you thought about adding a sub?

[Ironsave]

Does your receiver have an eq in the menu? (If new enough, it may have an EQ seperate for each speaker).

You could try increasing the bass; but as mentioned, the higher volume sound will be affected.

Dennie's suggestion is a good one; and if you have a remote; can be changed quickly.

Good Luck.

[Chris A]

I believe its called the Fletcher-Munson curve. Our ears are less sensitive to very low and very high frequencies played at low volumes. Adjust something so it sounds good for low volume listening and you probably won't like how it sounds when you turn it up.

Yep:

Equal-loudness contour

Note that you really need to turn down the mid-range and hf relative to lf. See the figure in the linked article.

Chris

P.S. -- Note that anything below 20 Hz takes a such a huge amount of output for humans to hear/sense -- that any subs that you pick that might be quoted as going below 20 Hz, well, you don't just need flat response down to those frequencies - it must be rising response, and a lot of it, to sound "equally loud" at virtually any listening volume. That is why most people are dissatisfied with their subs for HT - they need 115 dBSPL just to hear anything below 20 Hz, and few subs can put out that amount of SPL at those frequencies. You need a monster sub (such as a couple of DTS-10s) to hear the sub-20 Hz performance.

[vnzbd]

Thanks for the input on the subject. I did try JB's option of turning down the treble vs turning up the bass. I found that -3db on the treble along with +2db on the bass did make a noticable difference, but not quite enough. I have thought of adding a sub but because I live in a townhouse it might be a little much. I was surfing and came across a product called a MaxxBass 102. It uses sub-harmoics to give the impression of more bass and is one button defeatable for when I do want to listen at a louder volume. I would guess I listen at a higher level only 10-20% of the time. Does anyone have any feedback on the MaxxBass product?

[DTLongo]

I Googled Maxbass and looked at the video and it does seem to be an intriguing idea. But the one price I saw was 300 British pounds, some $400.00. Kinda pricey, I think. I do suggest that despite your reluctance to use a subwoofer, a powered sub would be a cheaper way for you to go. Why not look for a small 8" or 10" powered sub on Craigslist or some such, pick up one for say $50 and give it a try? A snall cheap sub won't rattle the rafters or your neighbors, but at the low listening levels you're interested in, turning up the sub would introduce the bass that you're now missing. You can turn the sub down or off when you want to listen at louder levels. Worth a try, I should think.

[Marvel]

I don't have the book with me at the moment, but it was pretty standard practice to have the mix sound correct between 80-95db. As the volume would drop, so would the bass and treble.

Bruce

[Chris A]

...it was pretty standard practice to have the mix sound correct between 80-95db.

This sounds reasonable [] --unless we're talking heavy-metal head bangers, etc. [^o)]

Chris

[jacksonbart]

.

[Marvel]

...it was pretty standard practice to have the mix sound correct between 80-95db.

This sounds reasonable --unless we're talking heavy-metal head bangers, etc.

Chris

It just gets better as you turn it up...[]

[SWL]

Note that you really need to turn down the mid-range

This works for me.......just a tad, though......you don't want to lose too much midrange....especially with tubes.

[ClaudeJ1]

I don't have the book with me at the moment, but it was pretty standard practice to have the mix sound correct between 80-95db. As the volume would drop, so would the bass and treble.

Bruce

85 db is the DVD 5.1 standard, which makes sense. I find that level to be quite satisfying, now that I'm into max. detail and hearing conservation. Had Khorns for 30 years and used to crank them when I was 23. Now I went to bigger horns and drivers for better detail at lower volumes, using about 100 Milliwatts of power on 109 db/w horns.

Best thing would be to get a used Onkyo or equivalent AV receiver with AUDYSSEY dynamic EQ/loudness compensation. It uses the ISO contour as part of it's calculations and also the speaker EFFICIENCY at the standard 85 db reference level. It will work in 2.1 or 2.0 channel mode as well as 5.1.

The "dynamic loudness" feature is the best loudness compensation I have ever heard and will work with any Klipsch speaker. The one pushbutton stuff is gross crap in comparison.

[CapZark]

This problem is exacly why they created loudness buttons in the first place. You've gone full circle and should just pull the Pioneer out of the garage if you want more bass at lower levels. If you try to use a sub in that townhouse you'll get more bass all right, with your neighbors fist banging on the wall.

[Chris A]

If you try to use a sub in that townhouse you'll get more bass all right, with your neighbors fist banging on the wall.

Actually, this is the only case in which I would recommend placing the sub right next to your listening position (i.e., not in a room corner) and as close to the center of the room as possible. You can also slightly raise the sub off the floor, then roll-off the sub's FR below about 50 Hz using any EQ that comes with the sub.

What does this accomplish? It decouples the sub from the room to the maximum extent and it will give you some feeling of bass at your listening position. However, this is a poor way to treat your sub... []

It's probably better to get a good EQ unit for your mains and be done with it. Audyssey EQ is okay, but the function built-in to AVPs is opaque to the user in what it is doing.

Chris