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Promedia 4.1 vs. Logitech z560 vs. Altec Lansing 641 vs. Boston Acoustics BA7800??


Gluegun

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quote:

Originally posted by iDoNtKnOe2k1:

Do i really need the tweeters in the Promedia? I already have trouble with the tweeters being too bright with my RF-3IIs

Which sub is better on loud levels, ex. bass tests.

I have narrowed out the bostons because of the bad return policy at gateway.

At the best buy here they sell the klipsch, logitechs and the altecs.

I seen the altecs and the sub is huge.

Which would work as a footrest also because im putting the sub under my desk on a corner to maximize sub sound. and sometimes i put my feet on the sub.
Smile.gif

Thanks....is the Santa Cruz sound card advailble at best buy or circuit city...i have chose the santa cruz for the 6 channel speaker capability when i upgrade again but the fortississmo has good software included like the 4 channel Windvd

The z560's are pretty much the loudest of all of these systems (except the 7800), and they are capable of the most bass exaggeration as well...

The Altec sub uses two 6.5" drivers, and the z560 uses one 8" driver..

The Cruz is avaiable at these places... i've seen it at Compusa... you can get it cheaply online, however.

I suggest you don't discount the BA7800's first thing, you know? they are a really great system... you can order the BA7800's online, or you can go into a Gateway store and ask them to order it for you... you could, at that Gateway store, figure out some details on a return policy, too...

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"Feh."

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You do realize that there are a good amount of very crappy 4.1 boston multimedia systems, and the BA7800, available only from Gateway, is better than them all?

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Yes, I thought the 7800's were an OEM Product. I have not had any trouble with them in the least when I used them. However, I did fry a motherboard and chip on the P4 2.2. More fans, more fans!!! Smile.gif

Best Buy to my knowledge sells Creative and Hercules. I did not see Santa Cruz or any other sound cards in the local store where I live. It may vary geographically or they may have been out of inventory.

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The bostons only use a 3in driver in the back, no tweeter...it seems that the boston sub doesnt go as low as most of the speakers listed on this thread..

I will goto best buy tommorow and listen to the altecs and the logis, i have knocked the klipschs out because of the expensive price but i might change my mind of the build quality or sub is better...thanks

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Uh, where exactly did you hear that they dont go as low as these other systems? That completely contradicts everything I have heard about these speakers, as well as what my ears tell me.

That might be true for the BA7500, but not the BA7800...

You can buy them here, for $250 + $10 S&H...

http://www.gateway.com/products/gca/snda/ba7800.asp?seg=hm

They can go down to 32 hz at - 3db. That's about as low as multimedia systems GO, man!!!

Remember, the BA7800 gets louder and has more bass slam than the z560...

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"Feh."

This message has been edited by Gluegun on 05-10-2002 at 07:07 PM

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and the bostons only have about 100watts rms, im still not convenced that the bostons are my best choice. I don't like buying things online. I have never brought anything on line so far and i am not planning to.

It would be nice if i could demos these at gateway with no one around and full blast to hear the full impact of these speakers that you are saying that are so good.

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At minus how many decibels, hmmm?

The number is useless without any clarification....

You do raelize the reason they only have 100 watts rms is that Boston Acoustics is being more honest than Logitech and Klipsch in their wattage ratings? The others exaggerate it by using 'Burst RMS' instead of continuous RMS...

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"Feh."

This message has been edited by Gluegun on 05-10-2002 at 07:53 PM

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Gyah!! BA7800 for $260 after shipping, and Turtle Beach Santa Cruz for $45 before shipping....

is THAT in your budget? that gives you the highest sound quality, most loudness, most stability, best bass of pretty much anything...

I'll find a few BA7800 reviews, including the ones that compare it directly to the Monsoon MH-505 and the Logitech z560's, which are both REALLY heavy hitters in what they are good at.... and the 7800's come out on top...

This, combined with the brand new WinDVD 4, (there aren't any hacks yet out for that, but there should be soon), or the old standby, PowerDVD XP 4, are the best choice, IMO... they give you all the dolby digital and dts processing you could want!

That, and my own listening test, are the basis of my recommendations...

I'll find those links soon...

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"Feh."

This message has been edited by Gluegun on 05-10-2002 at 08:06 PM

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Here are my thoughts.

First, lets work on the sub.

There are two systems in your list that I would go on the sub power. The LogiTech which CLEARLY has a lot of bass capabilities, over powering but tweaking your computer and the control pod fixes this. If your a gamer and movie watcher mostly, then this kind of bass is good, but for music, it is just too much. The Klipsch subs were the end all subs from the beginning. They were the first to have a powerful sub in a multimedia system, and they are famous for it. The ProMedia sub is nearly as powerful as the LogiTech, but is certainly a clearer sounding sub. THe LogiTech is boomy, the ProMedia is smooth. If you want this system to run bass tests all the time, get a LogiTech, but for over all best sub sound, get the Klipsch's, unless you will use this sub mostly, and i mean a lot, for games.

Satellites

The LogiTech speakers have a awesome looking speaker, but nothing more. There is no tweeter and that really makes me look down on them. You say your system of RF-III's is too bright? Well, you may not like Klipsch sound. However, the ProMedia's are not nearly as bright as the home audio Klipsch speakers. The LogiTechs have a slight, and this is an emphasis on slight here, richer midrange. The original ProMedia v2.400 'lacked' in midrange. I liked mine just fine, but with the intro of the ProMedia 4.1 and 2.1, i could hear what I had been missing, so I got them Smile.gif The logiTech has great midrange, it really is, but with music, the overbearing bass can make it sound muddy, to my ears at least. My ears like crisp precise sound, hence my like of Klipsch and Paradigm over some other speakers, eh hmmm BOSE. Now, the lack of tweeter, once again, is something that LogiTech really did not need to have happen. It would add little to nothing to the cost of the system or require little to any more power, no more power would be needed in reality. The tweeter that the ProMedia's have gives me that precise sound that I like so much. Youcan hear that the LogiTechs lack in the high end if you get a sin wave/frequency sweep test cd. I did when I was testing the LogiTechs and did notice this. Though it is not serious, it basically makes the 'lack' of midrange in the promedia's non existant, they equal each other out, so make your pick, slightly better midrange, or slightly better high ends.

To the amps.

The LogiTech uses RMS ratings. That means that it can output lots of power, 400 watts, for an extended period of time. Now, just because it can does not mean you need to. I will go into the importance of wattage in a minute. Klipsch used to use RMS ratings on the ProMedia line, but they do not anymore. The MBO rating is NOT a Burst RMS rating, which would be closer to PMPO or PPMO, which is the most useless rating (ProMedia 4.1's have anywhere from 3000-9000 PPMO/PMPO watts of power) (PMPO, peak max power output, PPMO, peak power maximum output) The MBO rating on the Klipsch's is an RMS rating that lasts for ~30 seconds. So, you can theorhetically 400 watts RMS for 30 seconds, instead of the extended time of a true RMS rating. But, don't let this turn you away, there is more to wattage than wattage. Smile.gif If you were to play your speakers using the full 400 watts RMS for 30 seconds straight, not only would you need to be wearing ear plugs, but you would want to get a fire extinguisher for your amp that is about to explode in a shower of sparks. Not really, but what I mean here is that running an amp at its max output, you risk murder to the amp (this has happened to numerous LogiTechs, now wait, don't take this the wrong way, as people take the actual few Klispch failures out of proportion, the majority of the LogiTech problems come from the over heated, over run amp), and you risk clipping, which will burn your voice coils to bits. Now, LogiTech and Klipsch were smart to put speakers on their systems that can handle more than what the amp puts out, but things happen. And trust me, things will happen if you go crazy with the volume and play things that use lots of bass and lots of highs. Now, part two of wattage. Gluegun would have done better in getting his BA7800's a foot hold in the wattage arena if he went on about how they are efficient speakers. Klipsch is notorious for this. One example. I am building a massive home theater. I tried out $2000 a pair Mirage speakers v2 $2000 pair Klipsch RF-7's (the mirages were OM5's I think). What took about 60 watts of power on the Mirages took about 40 watts on the Klipsch's. They are more efficient, they use less power to do more. This helps to prevent blowing your speakers from an amp that is clipping. (when i said burn your voice coils, i did mean that, literally. they are super hot, when they are not moving, the amp clips, they literally burn!) With efficient speakers, like the Klipsch Heritage speakers, it can take only 35 watts to blow your ears off. The Klipsch RF-7's do something like 102dB per watt per meter! That is a lot from one watt at one meter. So, don't look first at wattage. But also, you don't want a system with <100 watts when that <100 watts is being dispersed through 4 speakers and a power hungry sub. 400 watts is a good number, 100 watts is not something I look high upon. Now, the BA speakers are efficient, but they are very much like ROLAND speakers. They can get real loud, with just a little power, but they try to maintain a frequency while getting louder and thus having a higher amplitude, and you get a muffled sound. Now, this would be at a maxed out volume, and not only with the BA's. So, basically, don't look at wattage first, look at it later. Watt quality makes a difference also. My Marantz PM500 puts out much better and louder sound than some other amps I have tried, especially the low end entry level consumer amps from Sony, RCA and the like. So, quality goes before quantity.

Ok, so we have 4 systems we are looking at right? The Altecs, the LogiTechs, the Klipsch and the Boston Acoustics. I will put them in the order that i would look at them, Klipsch, LogiTech, Altec and then Boston. With two ties, Klipsch and LogiTech and Boston and Altec.

You could not REALLY go wrong with any of these systems. The LogiTechs and the Klipsch's for sure have the best build quality, from what I have seen. The Boston sub is really nicely built, nothing about the Altecs is superb build, but better than others.

Sound Cards. 6 channels is 5.1. 7 speaker or 6.1 has 7 channels. the GTXP will be able to do up to 7.1 which is 8 channels, distinct channels or not, you still make the seperate. 4.1 is a five channel. I would get the Santa Cruz or the GTXP. Both are great, but the break out box on the GTXP really sold me, and only cost me $85. Look around on the net. I use ProMedia and the GTXP, love it to peices.

Does this help any? You can always email me klipschter@yahoo.com

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-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

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oh yeah! The prices. The LogiTechs are $150-200 retail stores, the ProMedia's are $250. Not too shabby for either.

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-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

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So right now i am playing games (counter-strike) 40%, mp3s...usualy i turn the speakers loud enuff to the whole house can hear it 50%, and dvds 10%...

So again,

Logis or altecs( i like the altecs better) and Gametheaterxp

Or

Klipschs and fortississmo

This message has been edited by iDoNtKnOe2k1 on 05-10-2002 at 10:09 PM

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if you want to blast music throughout the house, get the logitech's. great for loud stuff.

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

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klipsch is great for loud stuff. but you game 40% and then 60% music? well... if youwant the best music, then get the Klipsch's. I just said the LogiTech because it sounded like you cared most about bass. But if it is actual sound clarity and loudness you want, get the Klipsch's. try both out at home, return which ever one you don't want to keep because at home they will sound totally different than at the store.

------------------

-justin

SoundWise Support

A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers

I am an amateur, if it is professional;

ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5

Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH

RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s>

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Here are some quotes from a guy called dvdvideo, who was known on the 3dss forums for buying and selling and buying and selling his way through dozens of multimedia speakers. Here are some fun quotes of his of the ba7800's...

"The z560's are an excellent set of speakers, especially considering the price, but, they just don't have the fidelity that these boston's do. That and the silly bass won't set up right without an equalizer......and a sock!"

"Tha ba7800 subwoofer is a downfiring 8" wooden subwoofer. It goes down deep 30-50hz ish, and still has lots of nice punch. I actually prefer it to the z560 sub."

"Mark, for what it's worth, it seemed to me that the Boston 7800 sub was superior to the z560 sub. Best 4.1 system?

IMHO, probably."

(in response to the z560 vs boston acoustics sub)

"Well, it has the same ability to reach down to 30-35HZ, boom when it needs to, but is still able to have some punch. The z560 is a bit weak in the "punch" area. "

(once more in response to the z560 vs boston acoustics sub, saying how the z560 perform)

"Nope, not kidding. I've not only heard them, I've had 3 sets.

TONS of boom with the logitech, but the mid-bass (70-150HZ) could have more punch. I found the ba7800 had more punch in this area. I wouldn't call the z560 muddy, just more rounded, less thunky. Don't know how else to describe it. "

"The ba7800 sub is exceptional....easily the best I have heard. TIght and punchy yet still able to go low and rumble with the big boys.

Better than the Klipsch 4.1, (haven't hear 5.1), z560, Polk AMR150, MH-505, ADA885, 641's, ATP5, etc.

Haven't heard midiland."

"How about bass compared to the logitechs??

I personally like it more. It is tighter, more defined, is controlable to a level that doesn't overpower the speakers.

That, and it still goes BOOM when you need it to."

"I never heard the ba7500's, but I heard a lot of bad things. Plus they use the same sub as the ba4800's and mediatheater (both of which I had), and those subs were less than spectacular.

As far as the Z560 vs Ba7800 for loud, I would have to say I think the Ba7800 are louder. Not that at really matters at that kind of insane volume anyhow."

Here are some reviews/impressions of the 7800

http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=Forum4&Number=52508&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1

http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=Forum4&Number=62341&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1

http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=Forum4&Number=53509&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1

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"Feh."

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Logitech gets louder than Klipsch. The Logitech sub is capable of more exaggeration than the Klipsch. The logitech system has less harsh highs than the Klipsch. The more recent streamlined versions of hte Logitech system, ie, the ones that allow you to reduce the volume so as not to bee so exaggerated, sound less boomy than the Klipsch.

IT IS ONLY THE OLDER VERSIONS OF THE LOGITECH SUB THAT ARE OVERPOWERING. IF YOU ARE REALLY WORRIED ABOUT GETTING A QUALITY SUB, GET THE 641'S OVER THE Z560'S AND THE PROMEDIA 4.1'S.

If I was tight on budget and cared about music a lot, i would get the Altec 641's over the Logitechs. If I could spend $250, I would get the BA7800.

With music, IMO, quality tweeters are important, and I also believe that I would rather not have highs than have overly-bright highs that are too far 'forward' so as to be fatiguing. To this end, I prefer a quality implementation of some tweeters, and I do not believe that the Promedia style of horn-loading tweeters is good. I like the tweeters in the 641's and ba7800's better... but if I REALLY wanted quality music in a 4.1 system, I'd get a set of Monsoon MM-2000!! Those wont win any loudness awards, however.

The order I put this, from my strongest suggestion to my weakest is as follows:

Boston Acoustics BA7800

Altec 641

Logitech z560

Promedia 4.1

If I didn't care about loudness and baaaaaasssss, I would put the Monsoon MM-2000 abouve the BA7800.

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"Feh."

This message has been edited by Gluegun on 05-11-2002 at 12:20 AM

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