wuzzzer Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Since I sold my Forte surrounds and am now down to a 2.1 channel setup I decided to experiment with my Forte IIs to maximize the sound I'm getting. I had previously had them toed in quite a bit. I read a thread somewhere a while back saying that Fortes should not be toed in or if they are, very minimally. So, I decided to move the speakers a few inches farther apart and set them up facing perfectly forward, not toed in at all. This allowed them to be 13 1/4" from the back wall, a bit farther than they were when toed in. I am running them full range without my sub at the moment. Unbelievable difference! Stereo separation has increased significantly, bass output has increased significantly, I'm getting pseudo-surround sound in the fact that I'm hearing sound way beyond the borders of the speakers. Imaging has only decreased by a small margin, voices and other sounds are still locked on in the center very well. Everything sounds a lot more realistic. For only being a 2 channel system this absolutely rocks. Even with movies I don't really miss the surround effects that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Oh Sure... go bragging about your satisfaction with going minimal as I am getting my butt handed to me trying to go more complicated with your old stuff!!! LOL Glad to hear placement play is working out good for you, nice when free things pay big dividends. I'm having issues w/crossover/sub/main settings/knobs/switches. Finally got it hooked up last weekend, was obviously not right, screwed around for the hour that I had then to no avail, back at it today and hope to get to your level of happy by the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 I had previously had them toed in quite a bit. I read a thread somewhere a while back saying that Fortes should not be toed in or if they are, very minimally. Wuzzzer, Maybe you read that here: http://www.soundstage.com/greg01.htm I read this review and decided to only toe my Forte's in about 8 degrees and the results were staggering. Imaging remained almost the same while the soundstage increased a ton. Unbelievable difference! Stereo separation has increased significantly, bass output has increased significantly, I too experienced the same results with the detail and seperation being the most noticeable. I changed to the "Crites tites" at the same time so that also contributed to these findings. Sorry you had to sell off some of your gear but I am glad to hear your 2.1 system has found a newer and better life. Happy Thanksgiving to you and all, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Wuzzer: last weekend I took my Forte ll over to a friends while he was working on his speakers so the system was open. We started with the Forte in about the same position as his ESS Heil AMT1D's (well into the room) as both speakers have rear mounted passive radiarors. This just did not work for the Fortell. Over some time I worked the speakers toward the front wall spaceing them wider apart as I got closer to the wall. In the end they were about 11 -12 feet apart and toed in about 8 -10 degrees perhaps only an inch off the wall and that seemed to work. Seating position about 10 feet back from the speakers. A little later I started to increase the toe in but while the image got better there was additional edge or hardness being directly on axis. So I got four hot melt glue sticks which were handy and about 7/16" dia. and some scotch tape. I used the tape to position the glue sticks in position vertically across the centre of each horn. the idea was to use the sticks as makeshift diffractors to deflect the on axix output of the horns diaphragms off toward the side wall. With this simple set of diffractors taped into place the stage and image got wider deeprt taller and the whole sound stage dropped back. Music was smoother and seemingly more extended at the top a little. The speakers did a better job of disapearing. I think that positioning a couple of small balls in the mouths of the two horns would work better than the vertical sticks. You might want to give this a try with some dowel or perhaps just some marker pens or the like to see if you experience the same thing. The diffraction stick or device as it may be does not change the output of the horn in any way as most of the horns output just blows on by but the nasty stuff from the diaphragms gets knocked off toward the side walls and then has to bounce to get back to the listening position. The time delay envolved lets your brain recognize the sound as part of the music but sees it as a reflection and so can more easiy ignore it. Give it a whirl and tell me what you think. I like these speakers quite a bit and think they have a lot of potential. I just got new mid diaphragms from Bob C and may also get the tweeter diaphragms as well. I plan to rebuild the crossovers probably in the new year. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share Posted November 25, 2010 Oh Sure... go bragging about your satisfaction with going minimal as I am getting my butt handed to me trying to go more complicated with your old stuff!!! LOL I saw your post about trying to get your Behringer's settings set up correctly. Hopefully you'll get it all figured out! [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share Posted November 25, 2010 Thanks for the suggestion moray james. As of right now my Fortes sound better than they ever have. The only other change I plan on making is changing the mid diaphragms to titanium from the Cornwall/Heresy III or through Bob Crites if he puts them into production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 So, I decided to move the speakers a few inches farther apart and set them up facing perfectly forward, not toed in at all. This allowed them to be 13 1/4" from the back wall, a bit farther than they were when toed in. I am running them full range without my sub at the moment. Unbelievable difference! Stereo separation has increased significantly, bass output has increased significantly, I'm getting pseudo-surround sound in the fact that I'm hearing sound way beyond the borders of the speakers. Imaging has only decreased by a small margin, voices and other sounds are still locked on in the center very well. Everything sounds a lot more realistic. When I setup my Magnepan MG-IIIa's (dipoles) without toe-in, I found the same thing happened. I wonder if the Forte IIs splash mf and/or hf around the room? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwphoto Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Stereo separation has increased significantly, bass output has increased significantly, I'm getting pseudo-surround sound in the fact that I'm hearing sound way beyond the borders of the speakers. Imaging has only decreased by a small margin, voices and other sounds are still locked on in the center very well. Everything sounds a lot more realistic. After reading a couple posts/articles I spent an afternoon setting up my Forte IIs. Mine ended up about 10' apart, 16" from the back & side walls, and toed in ever so slightly. Toe in was my last variable & I think it made final adjustment to the "stuff" along the walls in front (but not blocking) of the speakers. My love seat/futon puts my ears just above speaker height & 12' away. . . . I'm hearing sound way beyond the borders of the speakers. When I first closed my eyes and experienced this I was simply blown away! It can be stunning with the right recording of the right music. ;-) So, what version of Crites crossovers did you do? I've done the Titanium Tweets & am very happy but I think a crossover upgrade might be next. Frank W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyo5 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 I can understand why eliminating the toe-in would improve bass response. It allows the rear passives to utilize the wall behind them better, instead of deflecting their output off at an angle. Enjoy your Forte IIs! I may find a pair for myself in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted November 27, 2010 Moderators Share Posted November 27, 2010 Good deal Wuzzer, it can get crazy with the big changes in sound from just a little change in angle of the speaker. It really helps to have someone move them while your listening , you can hear the changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted November 28, 2010 Author Share Posted November 28, 2010 So, what version of Crites crossovers did you do? I've done the Titanium Tweets & am very happy but I think a crossover upgrade might be next. Frank W. I had Bob build completely new crossover networks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwphoto Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 I had Bob build completely new crossover networks. That's probably the way to go. Then, if I ever decided to sell the speakers (& I can't imagine ever doing so :-) I could include them at a higher price to recoupe some of the $250, or put the speakers back to original & sell the crossovers separate. Plenty of Forte II lovers out there! Frank W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Mark; I know what you mean by 2.1 being enough "practicly" speaking as it relates to the forte II's. I have never had mine toed in, and I keep them 15 inches from my rear walls, pointed straight out. They are about 9-10 feet apart as well. If anyone is interested, I am selling my BC replacement midrange phenolic diaphragms for $70.00 which includes free shipping in the lower 48. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted November 28, 2010 Author Share Posted November 28, 2010 That's probably the way to go. Then, if I ever decided to sell the speakers (& I can't imagine ever doing so :-) I could include them at a higher price to recoupe some of the $250, or put the speakers back to original & sell the crossovers separate. Plenty of Forte II lovers out there! Frank W. I only paid $275 for my Forte IIs so I figured I could invest some money in new networks and other modifications and if I ever sold them (highly unlikely) I could get pretty much all my money back including what I paid for the modifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Mark, were you wearing a ski mask at the time? You "stole" them for $275.00![Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted November 28, 2010 Author Share Posted November 28, 2010 Mark, were you wearing a ski mask at the time? You "stole" them for $275.00! The seller had them listed for $400 originally. I kept watching the craigslist ad and he dropped them to $275. I called him up and made arrangements to come pick them up. They were in almost mint condition, better than I thought they'd be! He said he was going into the priesthood and was selling almost all his belongings. He said he had exclusively used tube amps since he had bought them new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmvette Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 You stole them from a priest while wearing a ski mask? That's terrible [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 You stole them from a priest while wearing a ski mask? That's terrible A comment worthy of JB himself.... TOP NOTCH!!!!! Glad to hear your repositioning has made such a difference. PICS!!!! [] (It took me months to find my preferred speaker position..... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyo5 Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 If going into the priesthood means selling all your hifi stuff, count me out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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