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Opinion on Chorus ll


gagelle

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I can't give you an honest opinion but we may just have a Chorus II/Cornwall battle on our hands. Gagelle, all the blood is on your hands for starting this potential war.[:P] Seriously, you should get comments from the Chorus II camp as well as the Cornwall camp pretty soon. Hold on tightly we are in for a bumpy ride.

In the mean time take a look at this thread.

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/139827/1421223.aspx#1421223

Bill

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As someone who owns both I can share my vote for the Chorus II. Excellent bass, superior detail and clarity. I am comparing my unmodified Chorus II against a Cornwall II upgraded with Crites networks and selenium tweeter diaphragms. For me the Chorus is just plain better.

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I can't give you an honest opinion but we may just have a Chorus II/Cornwall battle on our hands. Gagelle, all the blood is on your hands for starting this potential war.Stick out tongue Seriously, you should get comments from the Chorus II camp as well as the Cornwall camp pretty soon. Hold on tightly we are in for a bumpy ride.

Yep; It could get bumpy indeed.

My .02 is they are both outstanding speakers. I think the Chorus IIs will provide the bass you seek.

(There is nothing wrong with using a sub; I do so with my Heresies and I could not be happier).

Good Luck.

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Anyone know if the Chorus ll sounds as good as the Cornwalls? I'm looking for excellent bass response. Thanks in advance for any feedback.

I was under the understanding that the Chorus and its logical successor, the Chorus II with passive radiator and tractrix midrange horn, were supposed to supplant the Cornwall in the Klipsch lineup. The form factor of the Chorus, i.e., its box dimensions, are more pleasing to the eye--being taller and narrower with a nice-looking wood design.

One would think that the bass performance of the Chorus would be a bit more "authoritative" and maybe a bit lower in distortion (better driver for high-displacement performance demanded by the direct-radiator design vis-à-vis the Khorn/La Scala/Belle horn-loaded designs) than the original CW design. I see that the Chorus II doesn't go lower than the CW, but I have noted that the Chorus II bass response is, well, more accentuated than the Cornwall designs (I and II) within the same FR band. The midrange tractrix horn and newer drivers (all 3 drivers) would indicate to me that the Chorus II was designed to sound better.

In fact, didn't Klipsch discontinue the Cornwall for a while then re-introduce the design later (due to Heritage collectors increasing demand for Cornwalls)? That would indicate to me that the Chorus was meant to replace the CW in the product lineup.

Chris

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In fact, didn't Klipsch discontinue the Cornwall for a while then re-introduce the design later (due to Heritage collectors increasing demand for Cornwalls)? That would indicate to me that the Chorus was meant to replace the CW in the product lineup.

If so, does not the Chorus' failure to replace the Cornwall suggest the Cornwall's spremacy? Nostalgia and what have you can't account for the return of the CW.

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I agree with Cask0's assesment. However the Forte II has lower bass response than the Cornwall. The only difference between the Chorus II and Forte II is a 15 inch woofer vs.12 inch woofer respectively. Both have the 15 inch passive radiator. The mid and tweets are the same. Although I have never owned Chorus II I have heard before. My impression is that they have slightly better bass response than the Forte II when driven at higher volumes, real high volumes. If you are not a DJ, or using as a PA system you will find that forte II will provide more than enough bass at "normal" & "obscene" listening levels in MHO.

Listed below are the specs of Forte II vs. Chorus II

Forte II :

Specifications




FREQUENCY RESPONSE 32Hz-20kHz(+-)3dB
POWER HANDLING 100 watts maximum continuous (500 watts peak)
SENSITIVITY 99dB @ 1watt/1meter
MAX ACOUSTIC OUTPUT 119dB SPL
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE 8 ohms
CROSSOVER FREQUENCY HF 7,000 Hz
LF 650 Hz
MAXIMUM ACOUSTIC OUTPUT 119dB SPL
TWEETER K-75-K 1" (2.54cm) Polymer diaphragm compression driver
HIGH FREQUENCY HORN 90(o)x40(o) Exponential Horn
MIDRANGE K-61-K 1.5" (3.81cm) Phenolic diaphragm compression driver
MID FREQUENCY HORN 90(o)x40(o) Tractrix® Horn
WOOFER K-25-K 12" (30.48cm) Fiber-composite cone active / KD-15 15" (38.1cm) Fiber-composite cone passive
ENCLOSURE MATERIAL Medium density fiberboard construction (MDF)
ENCLOSURE TYPE Bass reflex via passive radiator
DIMENSIONS 35.4" (89.92cm) x 16.5" (41.9cm) x 12.25" (31.1cm)
WEIGHT 67 lbs. (30.42kg)
FINISHES Walnut Oil, Oak Oil, Oak Clear, Finished Black
BUILT FROM 1989
BUILT UNTIL 1996

Choruis II

Specifications




FREQUENCY RESPONSE 39Hz-20kHz(+-)3dB
POWER HANDLING 100 watts maximum continuous (1000 watts peak)
SENSITIVITY 101dB @ 1watt/1meter
MAX ACOUSTIC OUTPUT 121dB SPL
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE 8 ohms
CROSSOVER FREQUENCY HF 5,000 Hz
LF 600 Hz
MAXIMUM ACOUSTIC OUTPUT 121dB SPL
TWEETER K-79-K 1" (2.54cm) Polymer diaphragm compression driver
HIGH FREQUENCY HORN 90(o)x40(o) Exponential Horn
MIDRANGE K-61-K 1.5" (3.81cm) Phenolic diaphragm compression driver
MID FREQUENCY HORN 90(o)x40(o) Tractrix® Horn
WOOFER K-48-E 15" (38.1cm) Fiber-composite cone active / KD-16 15" (38.1cm) Fiber-composite cone passive
ENCLOSURE MATERIAL Medium density fiberboard construction (MDF)
ENCLOSURE TYPE Bass reflex via passive radiator
DIMENSIONS 39" (99.06cm) x 18.5" (46.99cm) x 15.5" (39.37cm)
WEIGHT 89 lbs. (40.4kg)
FINISHES Walnut Oil, Oak Oil, Oak Clear, Finished Black
BUILT FROM 1990
BUILT UNTIL 1996
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If so, does not the Chorus' failure to replace the Cornwall suggest the Cornwall's spremacy? Nostalgia and what have you can't account for the return of the CW.

I'm thinking that nostalgia had a lot to do with it, along with a taste for a less-accentuated bass FR, but I certainly cannot verify that, since I believe that opinion cannot be argued.

What I was trying to highlight was that the Chorus series was meant to supplant the Cornwall. If you were to EQ both the CW and Chorus II bass bins to be "more flat", then I would guess (from a more technical perspective, i.e., the tractrix midrange will beat the exponential horn in constant coverage and mouth reflections and polar control, and the K-77 tweeter really has had a rough history--one that is punctuated with the words "no other alternative" by PWK himself) that the Chorus II would be chosen by A-B blind listeners.

But that is all speculation, unless someone has already tried that experiment, i.e., EQing bass bins to more flat response...then listening. Both speakers have notable humps in their lf response--just different, however.

Chris

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However the Forte II has lower bass response than the Cornwall. The only difference between the Chorus II and Forte II is a 15 inch woofer vs.12 inch woofer respectively.

PWK said throughout his audio career that low distortion is the one thing that you cannot "fix" in loudspeaker design. I believe what John is saying corresponds one-to-one with that opinion--in terms Forte vs. Chorus bass performance. You cannot make up for a smaller cone trying to push more air - distortion is the physical result of trying. However at low volume, the relative distortion between the two bass bins is probably below hearing thresholds.

Chris

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Owning the Chorus IIs I can tell you that they do need a good amp to deliver the bass that they are capable of. I push mine with a 200w per channel. At background volume levels it is thin but turn it up some and the bass comes alive. You certainly do not need to go to head banging levels to enjoy the bass although the Chorus II is also comfortable there. I have heard(but no personal experience) that the Chorus II has better mids than the Cornwall. My 2 cents!

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Just an observation as I do have a set of Forte ll but not the Chorus ll. If you take a look at the factory spec sheets for the two speakers you will see that the Chorus ll with its larger woofer has been crossed over to the mid Tractrix horn at 50 Hz. lower than the Forte ll is crossed. The reason for this is simple the Chorus ll fifteen inch woofer is going to have disperssion issues much lower in frequency than the twelve inch woofer of the Forte ll. That means you are asking the exact same mid driver and horn to run a full 50 Hz. lower in the Chorus ll than in the Forte ll. The mid is already running very low in the forte ll and an extra 50 Hz is a significant request. Remember the filters don't chop things off and drop like a rock they roll slowly. I would fully expect that the Forte ll will have both lower mid range distortion as a result especially so at high levels and better (smoother) disperssion than does the Chorus ll. Trade off is the Chorus probably has a little more jump and at hi level the Chorus ll's fifteen inch woofer is probably a little cleaner since excurssion will be lower for a given level when compared to a twelve inch woofer. At normal loud listening levels 90 -100 db both probably sound equally as clean with the overall edge going to the Forte ll in terms of spatial image and detail. I think that in a side by side anybody who is sensitive to spatial detail image and sound stage location would probably give the nod to the Forte ll but if you were not doing a side by side both would sound fine. If it were not for the size I would be tempted to go with the Chorus to get the extra dollop of wallop it can provide. There is also another thing I forgot to mention and that is the passive size The Forte ll has the benefit of a fifteen inch passive which will provide better control and be more linear at level than the Chorus ll with a fifteen inch passive. They are both great speakers just depends upon what your preferences are. Now a supersized Forte lll with two twelve inch woofers per cabinet perhaps in a push pull slot loaded reflex would be killer. Regards Moray James.

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Now a supersized Forte lll with two twelve inch woofers per cabinet perhaps in a push pull slot loaded reflex would be killer.

Moray, build it and I will buy it! For whatever reason I remember someone posting in the past that the reason Klipsch has not re-introduced the Forte/Chorus line is that it "Canabilized" the Cornwall. I seriously doubt that they could produce a Forte II or Chorus II for less than a Cornwall III, which MSRP's @$1,875.00 a speaker.

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Well we did not discuss the larger baffle of the Cornwall which will help to launch a better wavefront at low frequencies. That said I think that Klipsch could build a PPSL Forte lll or Chorus lll and as from what I have read the nesting of the drivers in a PPSL decreases combined driver distotion enough to permit the use of less expensive drivers. The smaller cabinets means that for a given material the cabinet will be stiffer. So it probably could be cone and be a more cost effective and better performing speaker. Keep the new design reflex loaded and you don't need to buy a passive radiator either just a vent. Big problem is that a PPSL design with 2x12 or 2x15 per cabinet are not going to be very pretty to look at. That alone would kill the product from a marketing point of view. Mass sales is what keeps any company alive. Look at the compromises that have been made in the Ref and Paladium lines to keep the visuals pleasing. Tall slim towers with multiple woofers to try to make up and two ways to eliminate the mid horn because the market research says horns are honky and not pleasing to look at and that the added cost of the horn/driver is high so lets just go with one horn. On it goes.

If one could find a driver (12 inch) with paramaters which would build into a similar volume in a PPSL design and have the right roll off so no inductor would be required (done in some two way designs) a very nice speaker could be built but again not going to win over many wives in the looks department. A Heresy lV with a powered sub section would probably be the most acceptable compromize but that amp and crossover for the sub section is going to hurt you in the market place. That's why god made diy.

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Both are fantastic speakers. SmileYes

This is so subjective. Placement, the room, your ears, equipment....etc.

I'll take BOTH!

Heck.... I am not greedy; I'll take EITHER....

(Just kidding Mike).

I think both speakers with the right amp and positioning/ setup can yield excellent results.

I keep waiting for the day I walk into the thrift store and find a pair sitting there for $20......

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Ironsave: exactly that a thrift store find happened recently to a fellow over on Audiokarma a pair of Forte ll for $20.00. Yes too good to believe. Regards Moray James.

PS: it occurs to me it might be pushing it to hope to get 650 Hz. out of a pair of 12" or 15" in a PPSL design it could be close but it might work. I guess that is what diy is about. Certainly there are suitable drivers available which would be superior to stock Klipsch drivers to run in a reflex cabinet that would or could be substituted into a forte or a Chorus or a Cornwall for that matter. Daves new Fast track ellyptical horns look really good and probably sound fine too. No way to tell if they are better than stock without trying them.

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