mark1101 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Gothover, Have you done any direct comparison of the Eleiptrac vs. the FastTrac? I'm wondering what sound characteristic differences were noted. I have heard the FastTracs and wondering what differences occur when you make the horn an elipse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Gothover, Have you done any direct comparison of the Eleiptrac vs. the FastTrac? Yes, the Eliptrac weighs alot more than the Fastrac. [] I'm wondering what sound characteristic differences were noted. I have heard the FastTracs and wondering what differences occur when you make the horn an elipse. The only direct comparisons I have done Eliptrac vs: Fastrac is with the K-55 driver and the 2"-1" adapter, in this scenario they sound the same to me. I am excited to try the Eliptrac with the Faital pro in a 2 way Cornscala, but have been far to busy to even get started on that project. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krell194 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 How would you compare the sound of the Eliptrac vs Stock horn with the K-55 driver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 You guys have got to give Dave a break on the listening tests. The HF200 driver I used to test was Dave's and was shipped direly to me. I shipped it to Lee for the current testing. Lee still has it. Dave may not have one to listen to yet! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 "Basically you have a horn/driver that collaspes it's polars in both the Horizontal and Vertical planes." I think that's exactly what you would expect from anything but a constant-directivity horn. It's one of the criteria used to pick the crossover frequency. You pick it where the directivity patterns are similar between the two horns and drivers being crossed if you can. AL K. Al Many horn of the past designs had goals that were to maintain even polars-vs-freq. in the horizontal plane while allowing the Vertical Polars to collaspe to acheive a form of acoustical eq-ing. Yes, I believe it is very important to try to match polars in the shared crossover regions of a loudspeaker system. mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 OK Looks good but does anyone have similar info on ... say the 402 or 510 to do a comparison..... or any idea what they would look like ? Thanks I will try to post some plots that I have. mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 What is your point? The horns and drivers are JUNK? The fact of the matter is Dave and ALK provided huge amounts of the data they have on this project, and by doing that they are now venerable all kinds of criticism. Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Craig! Craig 1st: I didn't call anything junk..! 2nd: I simply showed the data in a form that might help some to see how this horn/driver was behaving. 3rd: I appreciate Dave and Al posting their data because it helps us all to understand if a design has met it's goals(what any design is doing right, wrong, or just different). mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I doubt you will find that info readily avaialable, unless done by an independent party. Manufacturers rarely release that much data on their products. I would like to see that data on the Klipsch 402 and 510 as well. Craig 73. I can fully understand why many manufactures would be reluctant to share data when they can't control how their data might be manipulated or misintrepeted even by well meaning people. Data gathering isn't as simple as many think and how to use it for valid comparisons can be challenging also. mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Hey Fjd Your post is one of the best I have seen in awhile on this forum.! A friend and I are also going to build the Pass F3 and F5 if we(I) can get my butt in gear. miketn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Here is the K402 Horiz 402_hor.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Here is the K402 Vert Open the pdfs and blow it up to see the data in greater detail 402_ver.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Here is the K510 Horiz Polars Again open the pdfs and magnify to see the data in greater detail. 510_hor.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Here is the K510 Vert Polars 510_ver.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Please ask any questions about the polar data if it's not clear to anyone. If like me you believe it's important that a horn maintains it's polars control and thus treats all frequencies the same as much as possible (within the limitation of it's design size) then these horns are very unique. This very good polar control has been acheived without the problems that a diffraction slot type CD horn might exhibit. This is very important because the diffraction slot method can cause a shift in apparent source location as well as other interference effects. It's also very important to think past the horn/drivers frequency response. You have to ask yourself also how do I want the Horn (through it's polar responses) to integrate with the listener and listening room for accurate as well as enjoyable reproduction. mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Hey Mike, Have you got one of those for the Jub bin? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny's Jill Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Craig 1st: I didn't call anything junk..! 2nd: I simply showed the data in a form that might help some to see how this horn/driver was behaving. 3rd: I appreciate Dave and Al posting their data because it helps us all to understand if a design has met it's goals(what any design is doing right, wrong, or just different). If that is true, my apologies. The original post appears judgemental.I appreciate your posting the plots on the 402 and 510. They are exceedinly difficult to read with all of the markers. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I appreciate your posting the plots on the 402 and 510. They are exceedinly difficult to read with all of the markers. Craig Your welcome Craig. If you can again open them and use the magnifier and that should help. These are high resolution and will magnify easily. Note: The reason it is somewhat hard to read is because the horn is doing a very good job at treating all frequencies the same. If a CD type horn was perfect all lines would converge on top of each other in this type plot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 Does the 510 horn require EQing? I suspect that it does. The tractrix horns don't. I suspect that this is the trade-off with respect to directivity. If this is the case, it's another factor in the 2-way versus 3-way decision. You can only EQ a horn with a passive network to the degree dictated by the lowest efficiency driver. That's normally the woofer. The Jub is very efficient. The Khorn less so. That limits how much you can cut down the extra efficiency (above that of the woofer) of the high section. The only way then to get a flat frequency response all the way up is with an active equalizer in a bi-amp setup. I hope the drawing below will illustrate the point. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Please ask any questions about the polar data if it's not clear to anyone. Are these plots reflecting the K-69-A drivers or TADs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Does the 510 horn require EQing? I suspect that it does. The tractrix horns don't. I suspect that this is the trade-off with respect to directivity. If this is the case, it's another factor in the 2-way versus 3-way decision. You can only EQ a horn with a passive network to the degree dictated by the lowest efficiency driver. That's normally the woofer. The Jub is very efficient. The Khorn less so. That limits how much you can cut down the extra efficiency (above that of the woofer) of the high section. The only way then to get a flat frequency response all the way up is with an active equalizer in a bi-amp setup. Al K. Al Any horn that is neutral in it's polar response will have to have compensation because of the natural falling response of all compression drivers. All compression drivers have compensation applied either in the form of electrical or acoustical methods( such as allowing polar collasping). In the case of the Jub if one is using active crossovers then most of the compensation is accomplished by a reduction in drive and only about +4db is applied at the very top part of the frequency spectrum since it is easy to accomplish with the active method. In the case of the Jub with passive crossover there is a little more room for reducing the efficiency due to a loss in efficiency of the passive network and this helps to balance the upper response. miketn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.