Marathon Man Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 Boa12, Well you are lucky on the cable broadcasts. I have Direct TV and I seem to get very few DD broadcasts, even Pay Perview movies. They might have 1 or two movies that are broadcast in LBX, and DD. That sucks because that is one of the main reasons I went to Sat in the first place. Oh well. Most of the movies I like I just purchase on DVD anyway. Hey question. Did you purchase your velo from a dealer or on the net? ------------------ MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 m-man, got it from a local klipsch/also velo dealer. 1st got the 15 then they let me trade up to the 18. $2250 plus sales tax. if i had it to do over, i'd find an out-state dealer (like the kind the net dealers buy from) & do a better deal mail-order w/ no tax. yea on the ppv movies on TW cable they're never in DD5.1, just the regular DD/ac3/2.0. that sucks as showtime, hbo & starz are puttin the newer movies out in DD 5.1 ex pretty regularly now. the hbo show band of brothers was in DD 5.1. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathon Man Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 B12, Im thinking of replacing the RSW-12 with the Velo HGS-18, and using the velo in the front and the RSW-15 in the rear. I have been doing some research on a few subs to replace the 12, but have not yet made a decision. I was interested in the SVS subs simply because it seems to be a pretty well liked sub, but I just cannot bring myself to purchase the sub without hearing it. I only hope that I can find a dealer her in Atlant that carries the HGS-18 and has one on the floor. This was the same problem I ran into when I got the RSW-15.. no one had one as a demo, and I convinced my dealer to get one in and break it out for me to listen to or I would not have purchased it. However this guy does not sell Velo. On paper the Velo looks very flat, and has the power I want. Another thing is that I have never purchased any gear off the net. Im just to damn scared, because Im the type of person that if there is a problem with the piece I want to just take it back to where I got it and let them take care of it, and not have to wait for shipping etc.. you know the drill. Have you had any success making purchases off the net? ------------------ MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 mm, yes got both the pre/pro & amp from some legacyaudiovideo which was really uncle's net operation in ny, ny. no problems so far & prompt shipping, which they threw in free w/ the deals. however on the box they left on the original dealer ship sticker. it's upscale audio in CA - an authorized b&k dealer but don't know if they do velo. i think velo has a store locator @ www.velodyne.com a thing to keep in mind is on paper the hgs-18 looks like it'll knock your house down. but it is a high gain servo (hgs) complete w/ limiter/accelometer. so it'll clamp down some on the bass output for the sake of better, cleaner bass quality. don't get me wrong though, it'll still rock. best of all worlds in music & HT for me. but it won't do 110db at 20hz like the klipsch towers do w/ ease in those higher frequencies. then again really doesn't have to do that along w/ the other channels very often. here's the sub #s chart from Xmas time: ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 04-16-2002 at 10:10 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathon Man Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 B12, Good tip. I am going to try and give it a listen. I know where I can purchase one, but I just hope that they have a demo available for me to listen to. Im not really looking for a sub that will do 20 Hz at 110 db. I like you do want good clean bass quality however, and this may be the sub to replace the RSW-12. Kinda pricy tho.. Well if it sounds nice I may give it a go. Worst case I get it home and don't like it I can just return it if I purchase it locally. Hey man thanks for the input. Its always a pleasure. I will let you know what I decide to do. ------------------ MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 16, 2002 Share Posted April 16, 2002 yea m, i'd try to get a better price now than i did then. figure by the time I get more space i'll be able to get one new for $1500 or less. actually it should do more than that chart indicates. maybe not. but is was doing 100db at 20hz here w/ that generator at that -30db mark. don't think that was full output though. know one review got 123.5db max output from it, believe at 31.5hz. there are a few reviews out there if u do a net search for like "velodyne hgs-18 review". good luck! ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathon Man Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 B12, I know the sub rocks. I have a friend that has one, but he lives in California so I have not heard it in his theater. I am going to try and find one to audition today. I will let you know what I think of it, and if I like it and can find one for 1.5k I will most likely buy it. ------------------ MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 mm, just stumbled on this article. never heard this - an hgs II? nothing on vel's site about it i can find. maybe the hgs I is obsolete now & prices should therefore be lower. http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/ces2002/loudspeakers/page_12.shtml ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 04-17-2002 at 09:37 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 MM- Cruise over to the www.hometheaterforum.com site, go into the Speakers and Subwoofers forum, and put up a post that you're looking for an SVS to audition in the Atlanta area. There are lots of SVS owners that hang out on that forum, and I'm sure there must be one nearby that would be glad to show it off for you... Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimG Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 Velodyne has changed all of the HGS subs to series II. The difference is that the amps have been modified. The claim is that the new ERS amps are 97% efficient vs. 95% in series I. There have also been modifications made to improve RF shielding to reduce hum and noise. The drivers get modified with new cones, roll-edges and frames. As for the S&V review on the RSW-15, let me try to clarify a few things. First off, they did mention that the sub is "one of the best measuring subs" they've ever seen. The review text also refers to the fact that the RSW-15 "awakened the room rattles" that had previously not been a concern and that the overall system "played effortlessly at movie-theater reference levels." I guess I'm somewhat baffled at how you can find anything negative from the review, but let me see if I can help clarify the specs. (I'm not an engineer so forgive me if I don't answer everything asked.) The "in the lab" section numbers for the bass limits don't show maximum output for the sub. They were achieved by doing tone bursts at different frequencies, then listing the SPL that was attained before the onset of 10% distortion. Once those numbers had been plotted, the resultant curve was what was listed in the review specs. It's basically a 10% distortion curve - not a maximum output curve. Most subs with lots of output capability far exceed 10% distortion on a regular basis since you really can't hear distortion at those frequencies until it is well beyond 10%. So you can't use the 97dB/20Hz number in conjunction with the 112dB/32Hz number. Also, Tom says the sub had good output "all the way down to 16Hz, though with a rise in distortion at the lowest frequencies." This substantiates the fact that the 97dB/20Hz number isn't a maximum output number, but rather a number reflecting output capability before the distortion exceeds 10%. I'm not sure why he has chosen 10% as the distortion limit, but it does give a repeatable test to somewhat compare measurements off of. As for how we (and most manufacturers) measure our speakers, let me try to explain that too. Frequency response curves and maximum output curves are not really reflective of each other. Frequency response curves aren't measured at maximum output as that is not indicative of how a speaker will sound in reality. You can't play speakers at maximum output across the entire bandwidth all the time. Frequency response of a speaker will change near maximum output anyways as the drivers and system start to enter compression and distortion begins to rise. I know there is another thread about the RF-7 frequency response so let me try to help there too. Obviously, the RF-7 doesn't have a low-end limit of 72Hz as shown in the lab report. If you read the text or the highlights box, you'll see that the RF-7's play so low and loud that they say you don't even really need a sub. The review text also states that the RF-7's "demonstrated solid response to below 30Hz" in his room. I don't think the reviewer would have said that had the speaker really been rolling off at 72Hz. I need to do some research to see how they measured that response, but it obviously wasn't done in the same manner as a frequency response sweep would have been done by a manufacturer. Keep in mind also that the magazine lab tests and the review are not done by the same person or even in the same room. Ultimately, I might remind all of you to listen with your ears and not your eyes (by reading specs). You'll never know how any product will sound in your room in your system by reading someones test reports. Marathon Man actually listened to the RSW-15 and subsequently purchased it and an RSW-12. Believe me, I'm as curious as to how they got their numbers as you guys are, but I also wish people wouldn't form an opinion on a product they may never have seen or heard based solely upon a spec they saw in a magazine. I hope this somewhat clears things up. If it doesn't, I'm sure I'll hear about it. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 Jim, Since I was the primary person who brought up the discrepancy between the measurements made in the S&V report and Klipsch's specs on the sub and RF-7, I want to thank you for responding. All of my observations were made to show the disparity in the measured specs and to get an answer as to why it was so, not to "knock the product", per se. Seldom have I seen products measured in a magazine that differed so dramatically from the manufacturers specs. I also pointed out in one of my posts that the writers comments were quite different from the measurements. I believe that my previous posts on the subject were self explanatory and do not need to be reiterated again here. I look forward to when you guys have figured out the answer to the measurement question and can report definitively back to us. FWIW, since 1985 I have owned Klipschorns, LaScalas, KG-2's, a SW15II and my current Heresy's. I have had friends and family members purchase Fortes, KG-4's and KG-1's on my recommendations. So I approach this as a concerned fan, not someone who is looking for Klipsch to "fail". But in the independent tests I had seen on the Klipschorns, KG-4's, Fortes, KG-2's, Cornwalls and Chorus in years past, they easily met their specs (or were real close) in the independent tests. Which is why this big discrepancy really caught my attention. Thanks again for showing an interest in this thread and the RF-7 thread. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Bang & Olufsen Beosound 9000 Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 kevin, & by your other thread's title "No Highs, No Lows, Must be RF-7's?!" you weren't trying to be antagonistic? gotta admit it was an attention getter. just teasin. i fully understand where you're coming from. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathon Man Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 Dougdrake, Thanks, I will check it out. Wow... Kevin it looks like we stired the pot a bit, but its conversatioins like this that really add value. Jim, Thanks for taking the time to inject your explanation. One thing on the RSW-15. In the Atlanta market anyway the autherized dealers that carry Klipsh don't stock the RSW-15, and none had a floor model demo, which obviously makes it difficult for people to audition it. I am finding that this is also the case with a lot of the higher end subs. This is unfortunate because people are amlost forced to make purchases based on reviews, opinions, and manufacture specs. That is not the way to purchase any home audio product I don't care how good of a reputation the product has. It maybe a good idea to recommend to the Klipsch marketing team to make more of the RSW-15's available to your dealers as so they can be heard, and not just heard about. This way audiophiles can see what a great sounding sub it really is. Boa12, I did not get a chance to list to the velo today, but hopefully tomorrow. I think I have narrowed down the replacement of the RSW-12 to i.e. SVS, HGS-18, or another RSW-15. If I can't find either of the other two to listen to prior to purchasing I will go with what I know sounds good in my room which will be a second RSW-15. ------------------ MM This message has been edited by Marathon Man on 04-17-2002 at 11:15 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 mm & others, my closest klipsch/velo dealer has 2 rsw-15 & 2 hgs-18 on their floor (for now). sounds like they're a model klipsch dealer. wonder why they don't sell aragon? ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathon Man Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 B12 maybe things have changed since the last time I was at my klipsch dealer and they are getting more in. I purchased my RSW's back in January. Im sure if the demand is there it would make sense for them to have them available. Eventhough Atlanta is a fairly large town, it can be a tricky market for some products. ------------------ MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 mm, yea, like for pepsi. no rockin klipch dealers down in/near buckhead? if so that's where i'd go listen to some belles then go have a beer w/ those lovely other belles after. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathon Man Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 B12, It sounds like you have been to Hotlanta before. Amen on the pepsi. I grew up in the mid west and Pepsi was all I knew prior to coming here. I do know where I can hear some bellas, but not in buckhead tho. Not many audio dealers there. More clothes and furniture, etc.. I talked to someone last night that knows who has a floor model HGS. I am going to check it out today. I will most likely take dougdrakes advice and check out the hometheather forum to see if I can find someone in Atlanta who will let me listen to the SVS. I should have something to tell tonight. ------------------ MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.