Al Klappenberger Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Bob Crites is an authorised retailer for the Faital Pro drivers. That's good news. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Once again I have to put my ignorance on display. What are the advantages/disadvantages of choosing an 8 Ohm vs. a 16 Ohm driver, in this case the HF200? Would it make any difference which one you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Either driver will work fine with ALK's networks. Other networks will need capacitor changes depending on what attenuation setting is used. I chose the 16 ohm because the K-55 is 16 ohm. I am sure ALK or Bob Crites could explain this better. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Dave: I will be using an active crossover. Any issues vis a vis the effect on an amplfier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 The impedance of the driver doesn't matter on my networks. 16 Ohm drivers are simply set 3 dB hotter on the transformer for the same power level. You can't use any other driver then the K55 on the Klipsch networks or the mid-range and tweeter will both be operating at once. The AK4 network has equalization in it for the K55x that is also wrong for other drivers. Moving away from the K55 always requires changing the stock network. For bi-amping it also doesn't matter. Most amps either don't care about the impedance or have separate taps for each. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Dave: I will be using an active crossover. Any issues vis a vis the effect on an amplfier? It doesn't matter using actives, as long as your amplifier can handle the load. I would think either would work fine. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Dave and Al, thanks for the explanation. I know the difference is more complex with a passive network designed for a particular driver. In my case, the driver is directly connected to the amplifier since it is actively crossed. So, I guess the only issue is the ability of the amp to push the driver at either 8 Ohms or 16 Ohms. I suppose in that situation, the 8 Ohm driver would be better suited since the amp would have to work less for a given SPL.....correct? This all solid state amps btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Rudy, Impedance doesn't matter to power. It only dictates the ratio of voltage to current. Power is voltage times current. Simple Ohms law. R (or Z) = E / I and power = E X I. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I know sometime I mentioned that I sucked in EE class at school. So, in laymen's terms, it really won't matter which driver I use in my application. Although, using a 16 Ohm driver will make it a little easier to match with my bass drivers since the HF drivers are so darn efficient. With the 16 Ohm driver, I just don't want my amp to run out of umph. The Hafler P1500 I use for the HF drivers is rated at 75 watts on an 8 Ohm load and 85 wpc on a 4 Ohm load. No data given for a 16 Ohm load. I knew I should have studied harder in that class! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 I think you will have at least 40W into 16 Ohms. Al k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydfp Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Never Mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 Boydfp, I usually see posts removed by simply editing the text down to just say "Never mind!", or "Double post" or "Retracted" for example. AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I know sometime I mentioned that I sucked in EE class at school. So, in laymen's terms, it really won't matter which driver I use in my application. Although, using a 16 Ohm driver will make it a little easier to match with my bass drivers since the HF drivers are so darn efficient. With the 16 Ohm driver, I just don't want my amp to run out of umph. The Hafler P1500 I use for the HF drivers is rated at 75 watts on an 8 Ohm load and 85 wpc on a 4 Ohm load. No data given for a 16 Ohm load. I knew I should have studied harder in that class! I think the more pertinent question is what is physically changed when the impedance is changed. It may not affect small signal behavior, but what about large signal behavior? My hunch is you'll get better performane from the 8ohm...otherwise, why stop at 16ohm? Why not a 100ohm driver so that tube amps can drive the speaker without frequency response issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Interesting discussion on 8 or 16 ohm here. (especially interesting are comments by member sumaudioguy) http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/163536-1-compression-driver-8-ohm-vs-16ohm-2.html mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydfp Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Thanks Al. Revision made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 Guys, Take a look at this. Dave made the big-time! http://itishifi.blogspot.com/ I didn't know about this sit till just now. There's some other neat looking stuff there too. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Mike tn, thanks for that link. Very interesting discussion on the differences between the 8 and 16 ohm drivers. Just what I was looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Al can you do Impulse and Cumulative Spectral Decay test of the drivers/horn? Anyone reading these test should be aware that basic frequency and distortion measurements although helpfull are very limited in resolution on their own in revealing which driver might be the superior performer. It is very easy to demonstrate audible differences between drivers that these test just don't have the resolution to reveal..! Music is transient in nature and it very critical how a driver performs under these transients conditions. Test that reveal the transient behavior of the drivers can give correlation to audible differences heard. I've found that with carefull attention to setup and selection of reference points that Impulse and Cumulative Spectral Decay (waterfall graphs) testing of drivers can give valid indications of superior performance that correlates with the audible performances of the drivers/horn under testing. These test can also be very helpfull in identifying areas were compensation (at least when a DSP/Active based system is part of the design) can lead to superior performance with a given driver or were no compensation would be of benefit also. mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 MIke, I can do impulse but I am confused about it's value. A FFT analyzer like I use (HP 3563a) will comput the frequency response from the impulse response. It's called time capture by the menus. I do it sometime to simulate anechoic frequency response above a certain lower limit. That implies they are the same thing. My filter software can calculate the impulse response of a filter by summing it's frequency response and phase data from analusis (S12 parameter). It's called "fourier analysis". When Lee does the polar plot I can display the waterfall data from that data. Remind me when I get the polar plots posted. AL k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Al, "When Lee does the polar plot I can display the waterfall data from that data." I'm not sure what you mean here? The waterfall Mike was talking about has nothing to do with polar response. It is more like a 3d frequency response... showing the amplitude/FR of the system over time. This is very handy for seeing resonances in the system which might not show up in a 2d FR graph. The reason understanding resonances can be important is the system is literally playing a note when it shouldn't. That ringing maskes detail. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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