SWL Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I have to say these are very good amps, particularly when you consider the cost to watt ratio. I agree. For LF, these seem to be a must buy for the home if you want to push big woofers around. I agree. I bought these amps because I was in a pinch financially at the time. I intended on replacing them eventually but after spending some time with them they were keepers. Sure there are better amps out there.....but these are my LF amps in a poor economy and they come pretty darn close to some of the better ones. I've run them on the mids-tweets and for what you can get a rebuilt tube amp for right now......the tube sound is clearly better to my ears.....reinforced with some serious power on the woofers makes for an awesome sounding system. [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I've not been a huge fan of QSC in the past, but their new PLX2 and PL3 lines are really nice sounding...both down low and up high. They're gonna be a bit on the pricey side though. The Crown D75 is probably my first choice for pro audio in a home setting. When running active xovers, finding an amplifier with as little gain as possible is probably one of the more important specs when it comes to gain structure. The D75 is one of the lower-gain amps I've come across, and the stepped input attenuators make it easy to volume match with different input trim settings. I've also really enjoyed the sound of outlaw gear and would love to try one of these amps in an active xover scenario:http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7075.htmlhttp://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7500.html The noise floor of the Crown XTi lineup is too high in my opinion for use at home in active xover scenarios. That said, I'm running a pair of XTI-1000 amps at home right now....mostly because it's the cheapest way to get into active xovers (since the DSP is built into the amp). However, it seems the noise floor is actually in the front end of the amplifier before the DSP, so I've been meaning to experiment with some front-end mods to see if I can bring that down a bit. I'm wagering that Crown used the same DSP in the XTi as in the I-Tech, so I've got high hopes for dramatically improving the noise performance. It might even be as simple as swapping out some cheapo op-amps. Btw, when comparing amplifiers, I've found that source material with a lot of dense frequency information (a lot of instruments happening at the same time) will really help bring out the differences more clearly. The stuff audiophiles like to demo a lot of the time tend to have few instruments and a lot of space in the music...which really won't bring out the amplifier differences as much. Get a lot of cymbal action happening on your Behringer EP4000 and you're gonna hear that true metallic sound go away and turn into something more akin to sandpaper on metal. Or a heavy continuous bass line will cause the kick drum to get a bit hollow sounding (less oomph). You're probably not gonna notice it as much with something like Phil Collins or Steely Dan because the only bass line is coming from a bass guitar and that's all crazy syncopated with lots of space and whatnot. A lot of it has to do with how responsive the power supply is, and the nature of its responsiveness....so how much capacitance, size of the transformer, the feedback bandwidth and damping, slew rate limitations, etc. Notice the Behringer has the smallest transformer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormin Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 The Crown D75 is probably my first choice for pro audio in a home setting. When running active xovers, finding an amplifier with as little gain as possible is probably one of the more important specs when it comes to gain structure. The D75 is one of the lower-gain amps I've come across, and the stepped input attenuators make it easy to volume match with different input trim settings. That's funny. The D75 was the first pro amp I purchased when I went over to the active dark side, used of course. I actually went through two of them and both had horrid bumps when turning on AND off! Due to that experience, I have not been a big fan. I have liked the Hafler products, again used. However, as with any used, older amp, there are always minor issue. For now I'm not in a rush to change out amps, but would like to move to something with a little more power in case I go with 16 Ohm drivers as we are discussing in another thread. I started this thread since I have been fairly impressed with the EP4000s for LF use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Crap, I forgot about the turn on thump. Were yours new or used? I've only ever used them in studio settings with passive xovers in the speakers. The amplifiers were usually left on all the time anyway to keep things all warmed up. I wonder if there's any room inside to add some softstart relays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Crap, I forgot about the turn on thump. Were yours new or used? I've only ever used them in studio settings with passive xovers in the speakers. The amplifiers were usually left on all the time anyway to keep things all warmed up. I wonder if there's any room inside to add some softstart relays. I never opened mine, so don't know if there is any room in there. That amp is pretty slim, so I would be surprised if there was much room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The Crown D75 is probably my first choice for pro audio in a home setting. When running active xovers, finding an amplifier with as little gain as possible is probably one of the more important specs when it comes to gain structure. The D75 is one of the lower-gain amps I've come across, and the stepped input attenuators make it easy to volume match with different input trim settings. That's funny. The D75 was the first pro amp I purchased when I went over to the active dark side, used of course. I actually went through two of them and both had horrid bumps when turning on AND off! Due to that experience, I have not been a big fan. I have liked the Hafler products, again used. However, as with any used, older amp, there are always minor issue. For now I'm not in a rush to change out amps, but would like to move to something with a little more power in case I go with 16 Ohm drivers as we are discussing in another thread. I started this thread since I have been fairly impressed with the EP4000s for LF use. I've been trying to stay out of this thread because I'm a BIG pro-amp guy but I had to make a comment about the Crown studio amps. I've got a D-45 that Mark at Juicy Music went through and replaced the op-amp and caps in and it is a sweeeeeet sounding pro amp. I've got it teamed up with an Anthem Pre-amp and some modded Lascalas. I think it's the only SS amp he's messed with. What a great job he did with it. NO bump on or off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 CECAA850, don't be shy, all opinions are welcome. As you know I am joining you in that camp. After having gone the 'higher end' consumer route, I really think that pro amps can be very good for home audio use with the right gear. If you want to start an argument about how crappy pro amps are, just assume I have terrible hearing and chalk it up to my ignorance. I have never gotten into tube gear and don't expect to, so this is mostly about the use of SS amps. I would like to find a new, reasonably priced pro amp that will produce good amplification for the higher frequency portion of the spectrum. My experience thus far is with a few Crown, a few Haflers and the Behringers. From my limited knowledge and experience, pro amps seem to offer tremendous power and very good performance if you can work around the fans and the general lack of a 'pretty face'. I really appreciate all the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 My QSC should be arriving tomorrow or Monday, but the only comparison I'll be able to offer for now will be between my Carver(home amps) and this QSC. I may reach out to some of the other members that are in my area that have different pro amps to do a little swapping. Looking strictly at the pictures, those Mackie's look to be the tanks of the lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 ...I forgot about the turn on thump... I never opened mine, so don't know if there is any room in there. That amp is pretty slim, so I would be surprised if there was much room. I think that there is room inside the D-75A for a relay, but not a great deal. FYI: I'm using 5 Crown D-75A amps right now in my main rig -- 1 each for the bi-amped Jubs, two for the center Belle (triamped), and one for surround CWs. I don't have a much of a turn-on bump with my D-75As - they are actually very quiet. I believe that I have already mentioned that turn-off transients aren't severe but they will get your attention if you're not used to it. I find it difficult to believe that Crown would put out a product that would kill drivers on turn-off, and have them stay on the market for so many years. If you've got any Crown D-75As that you want to sell, let me know. I bought mine for $150-$200 each on ebay and craigslist [] Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 Chris, I see you have changed amps. I no longer have those amps, but if I hear of any I'll e-mail you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 My QSC should be arriving tomorrow or Monday, but the only comparison I'll be able to offer for now will be between my Carver(home amps) and this QSC. I may reach out to some of the other members that are in my area that have different pro amps to do a little swapping. Looking strictly at the pictures, those Mackie's look to be the tanks of the lot. Pete, which model did you get? Please let me know your impressions. What are you hooking it up to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I believe he's getting a QSC cinema amp, DCA 1622. I think it will ultimately be a sub amp but he's going to try it on his mains. Pete, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Pete, which model did you get? Please let me know your impressions. What are you hooking it up to? I got the DCA1622 and it will probably be used on the set of Spuds but I'll be listening to it initially on the RF7's and the Cornscala's so I can hear how it compares to the Carver's, and one of these days when I get around to hooking up the active crossover that has been gathering dust for a while, I needed to get more amps for when that happens as well as when I decide on a prepro to replace the HT receiver. I'm still going to need 4 or 5 more amps when this is all said and done so for under $400, I wasn't going to pass on this one and it was time to stick my foot in the pro amp waters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhoak Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Interesting thread!!! Last night I picked up a pair of Magnepan MG-12QRs to listen to while I do a little rebuilding of my La Scalas. Hooked up to my old Onkyo M-506RS the needles were pretty much maxing out at a not terribly loud listening level. Of course the M-506 is not rated for 4 ohm use or at least there's no publishid spec for 4 ohms. I'm toying with the idea of taking my IB subwoofer offline for a few weeks and moving the Behringer EP2500 that drives it to the living room to push some real power to the Maggies. I'm curious as to what to expect. I know the Maggies need a sub but I have an unused Dayton Reference 10" (kit version) sitting in a closet that should be OK in the short term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I believe he's getting a QSC cinema amp, DCA 1622. I think it will ultimately be a sub amp but he's going to try it on his mains. Pete, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.I was typing while you were posting.[Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 Pete, let us know how that turns out. BTW, for the TH subs, the EP4000 is a huge bang for the buck....no pun intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Pete, let us know how that turns out. BTW, for the TH subs, the EP4000 is a huge bang for the buck....no pun intended. WOW! Price per rated watt is off the chart. Do you think that might be just a small overkill on the headroom department for really efficient horn loaded subs! LOL[] I think on the next Klipsch gathering everyone just needs to bring their amps, tube, SS, old, new, pro and consumer and throw in some little T-amps, a few sets of Klipsch (Heritage, Reference, Pro, Cinema and a couple of builds) and have a listen. I think in the amp department we could come up with representation from most manufacturer's and all price ranges. We would have to have some of the techs of the group measure everything so that during the blind listening tests when a majority of the group decides what they most like, we can learn that we don't know what we're talking about because the tests prove that it can't sound good[]. If you're not smiling at that, you need to put down the test equipment now, take a couple steps back and think happy thoughts! I would seriously love to hear a ton of different amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Pete, let us know how that turns out. BTW, for the TH subs, the EP4000 is a huge bang for the buck....no pun intended. They'll dim any light on it's circuit when the bass hits hard too. Be sure they have a good supply of juice if you run them hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Hooked up to my old Onkyo M-506RS the needles were pretty much maxing out at a not terribly loud listening level. Of course the M-506 is not rated for 4 ohm use or at least there's no publishid spec for 4 ohms. I see specs that say 120wpc at 8ohms and 160wpc at 4 ohms. That is not a lot of power for Maggies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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