Pete H Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 It's time for me to start organizing my media files (mainly audio), backing up my Cd's and vinyl on a server and be able to integrate them with my audio and HT system and I don't have a clue how to process the options that are out there within the confines of the budget I have set for this part of the system. I've searched through the posts and goggled, in an attempt to gather information, but I can't seem to find solid information regarding DAC's and management software, so I'm reaching out again to those that can offer suggestions. 1. DAC suggestions at $500 max new or used purchase price. 2. Management software for the media files that can EASILY covert my existing formats to high quality digital files and allow simple and seamless integration with my A/V equipment. 3. Sound cards (internal or external) that don't cost more than $300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0O Bill O0o Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Software: Pure Music's Pure Vinyl. Apple's iTunes TuneUp Media's TuneUP Hardware: Emu 4040 Analog to Digital and Digital to Analog converter Apogee Duet Data Robotics Drobo and buy a bunch of 1 TB or larger Hard Drives Work Flow, Use iTunes to make .RAW or Apple Lossles rips of CDs.. ensure you check "automatically eject CD after conversion" , saves time. One CD takes 5-8 Minutes, I can do about 20 CD in 2 hours, give or take a few minutes. Then use Tune up to enter the right tag, album artwork, etc Vinyl Workflow is MUCH longer since you have to listen to every record and VERY labor intensive. This is going to take you 200+ hours for about 1000 CD and God knows how long for Vinyl. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Software: Pure Music's Pure Vinyl. Apple's iTunes TuneUp Media's TuneUP Hardware: Emu 4040 Analog to Digital and Digital to Analog converter Apogee Duet Data Robotics Drobo and buy a bunch of 1 TB or larger Hard Drives Work Flow, Use iTunes to make .RAW or Apple Lossles rips of CDs.. ensure you check "automatically eject CD after conversion" , saves time. One CD takes 5-8 Minutes, I can do about 20 CD in 2 hours, give or take a few minutes. Then use Tune up to enter the right tag, album artwork, etc Vinyl Workflow is MUCH longer since you have to listen to every record and VERY labor intensive. This is going to take you 200+ hours for about 1000 CD and God knows how long for Vinyl. Good luck. This is going to take you 200+ hours for about 1000 CD and God knows how long for Vinyl. Good luck. OK, thanks for the words of encouragement![] Now, let me go back to the answer; can you break down the suggestions into "why is this better than the other?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0O Bill O0o Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 OK, thanks for the words of encouragement! Now, let me go back to the answer; can you break down the suggestions into "why is this better than the other?" I gave you tools in the software part, they all do a certain thing. Google 'em. Now, The Apogee Duet DAC and the Emu DAC are A/D & D/A converters that fall in your price point. The Emu being the less expensive of the two. I have only experience with the Apogee Duet, but there is good deal of dialog on the internet with regards to both, again Google 'em.There is another discussion that I came across, the whole "What's the best bit depth do I record Vinyl at?" I really can't answer that.. Vinyl (Analog) is like the pure flow from the faucet, then running your finger under it for the temp. Digital is a sample of that temperature taken, in CD's case, 44,100 times a second, which more or less feels like the same temp. I can't really relate bit depth, but think of it as more fingers sampling the flow. This is how Learned that Analog can sound better in theory, but can most tell? I think not. BUT I think if you record at the highest bit depth, then dither down to 16bit/44Khz Audio then convert to Lossless, you'll get the best results. It's like shooting with a Hasselblad (Google it) and then resizing and dithering the file to fit in 100 X 100 Facebook profile pic. It will still look better than using an iPhone camera. Still all that is labor. Okay that's a read! a bit more than you were looking for, too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 If you have a quality DAC in your reciever/processor then you don't need to worry about an external DAC. There are a lot of different software programs out there, I still prefer using the latest Windows Media Player with Windows 7. I haven't ever needed to convert vinyl only CD's, I use WAV lossless files. For very nice high quality sound cards look to Auzentech http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/feature.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I use a Cambridge Audio DacMagic connected to my computer via USB. There is no need for a sound card that way. I use Media Monkey to organize, categorize, and play my files. I am not an Apple fan and Media Monkey will handle FLAC files, unlike I-tunes. I rip Cds using Exact Audio Copy, saving the files as FLAC files. I have not done anything with converting records into digital files, so I can't help there. I have no complaints with this setup, sounds great, and the price is quite reasonable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0O Bill O0o Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I add that the last two post have good recommendations. The only thing that, to me, makes iTunes a better work-flow is the level of integration that iTunes and TuneUp have with mass market media. Insert CD, RIP to Lossless, eject, NEXT! Touch up the missed album artwork that iTunes didn't find with TuneUP. you don't get that level of integration with ANY other software UNLESS you write your own automated script. Lets not also forget that Apple makes two wireless DACs. The Apple Airport Express (AE) and the Apple TV, which INTEGRATES with iTunes seamlessly. Use an additional DAC if you demand higher fidelity. Also you can stream straight from your iPhone/iPod right to your Apple AE or TV Sonos and Meridian Sooloos have come close but not quite there. The only other device is worth mentioning is the Logitec Squeezebox used with an External DAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Insert CD, RIP to Lossless, eject, NEXT! Touch up the missed album artwork that iTunes didn't find with TuneUP. you don't get that level of integration with ANY other software UNLESS you write your own automated script. Windows Media Player does all of this for me, no other software is needed, very fast and easy to RIP CD's to lossless and gets all of my album covers, I have tried many other players but I have always come back to WMP. I tried itunes once to be fair it was a couple years ago now, but I took it completely off my computer the same day I installed it as I was not at all happy with the sound quality and unimpressed with the user interface. The DAC in my PR-SC885 processor is excellent and I have it connected by digital coax to my Auzentech sound card, my home built music server outshines the music quality of any CD player I've owned. I am extremely happy with the sound quality and nothing compares to the convenience. I use WhiteCap for very nice graphic visualizations on WMP while music plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0O Bill O0o Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Insert CD, RIP to Lossless, eject, NEXT! Touch up the missed album artwork that iTunes didn't find with TuneUP. you don't get that level of integration with ANY other software UNLESS you write your own automated script. Windows Media Player does all of this for me, no other software is needed, very fast and easy to RIP CD's to lossless and gets all of my album covers, I have tried many other players but I have always come back to WMP. I tried itunes once to be fair it was a couple years ago now, but I took it completely off my computer the same day I installed it as I was not at all happy with the sound quality and unimpressed with the user interface. The DAC in my PR-SC885 processor is excellent and I have it connected by digital coax to my Auzentech sound card, my home built music server outshines the music quality of any CD player I've owned. I am extremely happy with the sound quality and nothing compares to the convenience. I use WhiteCap for very nice graphic visualizations on WMP while music plays. Good to know that there is more than one way to skin a cat in terms of automated ripping. Do you use a Zune or make CD's when you are traveling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 Thanks for the information! I'll start digging into the suggestions and see where the rabbit hole leads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Do you use a Zune or make CD's when you are traveling? No I don't use Zune or make any CD's traveling, I do everything at home through either my home desktop or my dedicated music server. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0O Bill O0o Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 It's time for me to start organizing my media files (mainly audio), backing up my Cd's and vinyl on a server and be able to integrate them with my audio and HT system and I don't have a clue how to process the options that are out there within the confines of the budget I have set for this part of the system. I've searched through the posts and goggled, in an attempt to gather information, but I can't seem to find solid information regarding DAC's and management software, so I'm reaching out again to those that can offer suggestions. 1. DAC suggestions at $500 max new or used purchase price. 2. Management software for the media files that can EASILY covert my existing formats to high quality digital files and allow simple and seamless integration with my A/V equipment. 3. Sound cards (internal or external) that don't cost more than $300 Going back to the top, I have an Apple Macbook Pro, 500GB WD Firewire External HD, Apple TV (2010), Yamaha RXV1800 Receiver, 2 xJL Audio F113 Subs, and Klipschorns. Going on the Road I have an 64GB 3G iPad & 80 GB iPod. For Vinyl I have a Project Debut III and to copy some of the better recorded "vintage" vinyl I use the Apogee Duet. I also use a Apt-Holman Phono pre-amp. (I plan on purchasing PureVinyl) Therefore I recommend what I have. You can swap Mac / PC, Any receiver with HDMI / Optical in,Any Subwoofer, Any Speakers. The Apple TV has HDMI, Optical and just looks cool when you play it on your HDTV. I have never had to mess with integrating drivers, sound cards, DACs or Software. I have a wireless lossless streaming audio system. I control everything for playback from the iPad, any iOS device works(iPod/iPhone). When I am on the go in my car, at the airport, or work, I take my Lossless Audio with me on my iPod and iPad. Of course the are other ways, but they are not this integrated. I have used both, every solution is struggling to keep up with the iTunes and other Apple products. When you think about enjoying some of your older Vinyl recordings you'd listen to them at home. But on the road, no. You'd use something like an iPod to take your Vinyl recordings to places they could normally never play. haha. or on a Zune? I'll add this funny clip to highlight the humor I have with all this digital tech I like Rich_Guy's suggestions, however the solution provide does not come to the level of integration to what you currently have. All you need to do is download iTunes, Purchase an Apple TV, and HDMI Cable and you have a full blown lossless, wireless digital music system. Compare that to his suggestion of buying & installing a sound card in a HTPC (that you may or may not have) Then do you want to take your music on the go? iPod Touch / iPhone is a no-brainer, why bother with the Zune? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Is Apple TV a DAC? I don't see any analog outputs on it. It appears to only output HDMI or Toslink (optical). It also appears to limit you to either Apple lossless or WAV. Otherwise, I like the idea. I would want to use my own Benchmark DAC (which won't decode Apple lossless AIFF), so a wireless stream from my PC to my equipment rack. Right now I just run Toslink from a soundcard and I can get up to 24/192. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0O Bill O0o Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 You're right, the New Apple TV is NOT a DAC, but the Old (pre 2010 little black box) is. Your Benchmark DAC decodes PCM which is what the Apple TV or Apple Airport Express outputs, bit perfect lossless PCM. Apple iTunes gives you WAV, AIFF, AAC, and MP3s to encode CDs to play on your iPods If you need higher rez capability, which is up and coming but not adopted by many, get Amarra. Amarra is a companion software to iTunes. Right now, 16bit/44Khz is the best you can get for 99% of music. That 1%, and I feel for them, has hope their favorite artist encodes they music in 24/96, forget about 24/192! Upsampling doesn't compare to native resolutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Yes, mental mistake......the Benchmark would be able to receive PCM via the optical connector on the Apple TV. So it would work and I could use Apple TV as long as I my music is one of the above formats. I am just getting into this music server business, just got my DAC a couple of weeks ago. So still learning. I have a large library of lossless music I run with Itunes on a USB hardrive, and a ton of CDs still to convert. I really would like to make my PC the center of my music sourcing but I've got work to do. I'm still trying to find out how to get the best sound. The Benchmark worked well using the USB.......and no soundcard involved. But the PC is too far from my rack for even a long USB cable. So I am using an ASUS Xoner DS sound card and Toslink to my DAC. That CAN sound very good but there is something intermittent wrong with my sound card and I get a lot of WOW (louder/softer/louder/softer) whether using either analog or digital out of it. Still not sorted out. But I'm working on it slowly. It's probably going to get replaced with something else. There are really 2 issues. One is that the Benchmark DAC while excellent in clarity, has made my system sound a little cold. I am working on how to get the best sound out of the DAC still. I believe it will end up being a keeper for a good period of time as it presents excellent detail, depth, and imaging. I know there are better out there (some nice Tube DACs) but this is a fine start. I have a tube buffer on the way to be delivered this week. The second issue is how to get the best sound out of the PC. After spending a lot ot time I'm convinced it is digital. I've tried some nice sound cards and the analog outputs are no match for the Benchmark. That said, I have a bum sound card right now and this is where I have a choice on how to get over to the equipment rack....another sound card, or some new wireless device. Putting a stream on my network allows music in other places in my house and outdoors as well. So this is something I'm definitely looking at. There is actually a 3rd concern, and that is format. I haven't done any tests on which lossless sounds best......or if there is even a detectable difference. But it's largely a labor issue. Pick the wrong horse to ride......and there goes a few months of my time. Right now the hard drive I have is all Apple lossless and I use itunes. I will probably just keep on keeping on but will tackle this issue when I'm satisfied with my system and the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I'm still trying to find out how to get the best sound. The Benchmark worked well using the USB.......and no soundcard involved. But the PC is too far from my rack for even a long USB cable. . Mono Price sells a 50ft long powered USB cable that I am using to connect a second computer to my DAC for home theater. I don't know if that is long enough, but it works perfectly for me. I was a little skeptical at first that a cable that long wouldn't have issues, but no longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0O Bill O0o Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Mark, I am with you. I have made MANY wrong turns getting into Digital Audio & Digital Audio Management. Issue 1. DAC, Soundcard, and Optical Cable issues. Solution, would be to get an Apple Airport Express or Apple TV (2010) :-) ..or another sound card or a coaxial digital cable? Issue 2. The Benchmark DAC has made your music "cold" Solution, insert a "warming" electronic, haha. No, that is the reality of Recorded Digital Sound. I think you are going down that alchemist road of what tube will warm up my cold digital music. but Peachtree Audio makes some good integrated tube DACs if you must go down that road. Issue 3. Which lossless is best? Lossless by name means that it doesn't lose any data or sound. right now iPods go up to 24bit/48Khz so that is what Apple will officially support since there has to be that level transparency across the product line. Still, iTunes supports higher bitrates, and right now Amarra and Pure Vinyl have some the best ways of getting that high resolution digital content to your ears. Since, the mob (Apple & Apple Users) don't listen to 24/192 resolution music NOR do your favorite Artists produce media in that resolution I think you should feel content with the Apple Lossless 16/44 of today and tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0O Bill O0o Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Since I had the afternoon off, I wanted to share will you all that I found a great review of Puremusic, here http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/puremusic2/1.html Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KdAgain Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 It's time for me to start organizing my media files (mainly audio), backing up my Cd's and vinyl on a server and be able to integrate them with my audio and HT system and I don't have a clue how to process the options that are out there within the confines of the budget I have set for this part of the system. I've searched through the posts and goggled, in an attempt to gather information, but I can't seem to find solid information regarding DAC's and management software, so I'm reaching out again to those that can offer suggestions. 1. DAC suggestions at $500 max new or used purchase price. 2. Management software for the media files that can EASILY covert my existing formats to high quality digital files and allow simple and seamless integration with my A/V equipment. 3. Sound cards (internal or external) that don't cost more than $300 Pete, Lets start by trying to clear up some terms. You mentioned DACs at $500 and soundcards (internal or external) at $300. The terms 'DAC' & 'Soundcard' are often used interchangably. I think it's a bit of a misnomer to call an external DAC a soundcard, but it's done all the time now. So I'm not sure what you had in mindbetween the two. Anyway my first DAC was an EMU 0404-USB which is an external. (Don't confuse it with the 0404PCI which is a whole different animal.) For the money it is totally amazing - especially with our Khorns and Danley DTS-10 sub. Do some Google on it and you will find lots of reviews, mostly favorable. Then we decided to go to a 5.1 system for movies and of course the 0404USB wont work. So we got an Asus Essence ST internal soundcard with an H2 daughter card. It will handle up to a 7.1 system. I have not A/Bd the two DACs but I'm just as happy with the Essense ST card. It also has sockets for the opamps so you can tweak the sound a bit by 'rolling' your opamps. I'm happy with ours the way it came. Either of those DACs will fall well within your budget. If you are ever going to use the card for more than 2 channel listening you may want to seriously consider the Essence ST. You could get just the basic card now and then later add the H2 daughter card for multi channel. We use JRiver Media Center 15 for ripping and playback software. It's wonderful! Among the best ripper if you use it's 'secure' setting. When it finds errors it will keep re-reading trying to get a good read. It's organizing ability for your music collection I believe is head and shoulders above any others. That said to use some of the advanced features can take some head scratching! They have a very helpful forum. I believe it's SQ is up at the top of the heap. Before you chose player software though you really need to settle on the computer platform - PC or Mac. I think these days they are equally good when using the right software. I have read a few times that Itunes on a PC is not very good SQ wise. So I suggest JRiver on the PC and Itunes on the Mac. And if you really want to blow your budget get Amarra on the Mac. I believe it works in conjunction with Itunes. Re the long time to rip. We have ripped hundreds of CDs and hundreds of movies to our Windows Home Server maching. I just did it over a period of time. Plop a CD in and start the process. If the computer is at your desk you can do some other work while the ripping is going on. Believe me it is so well worth the effort. We have available in either our HT room or living room all of our music, movies and photos. And they are all so accesible that you will start to listen to a lot of stuff that you haven't in a long time. BTW we don't have a receiver. We go straight from the PC to our power amps. Works great for us! Have fun and good luck with it. Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I am not into portable music players, my home built music server is for my home music system but files could easily be downloaded to anything portable. My goal was to have a very high sound quality home digital music server that would match the components of my home system, I am very happy with this music server. My music server is built in an OrigenAE H7 case like below, (I have the black case, the quality of OrigenAE cases is exceptional). Specs are. Intel H55TC Motherboard & Intel Core i3 540 Processor 8 GB Crucial Ballistix memory Ultra X3 600 watt modular power supply (these are very nice power supplies, I highly recommend Ultra) Auzentech sound card (very nice quality, excellent sound) LiteOn Blu-ray drive Sony DVD drive Hauppauge 1229 WinTV-HVR-2250 TV tunerTwo 500 GB Western Digital hard drives Windows 7 Home Premium The music server is controlled with a Logitech diNovo Edge keyboard, Kensington media mouse and my URC MX800 and MX850 remote controls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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