frankphess Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 By this I mean, if I can't get satisfactory SPL's in my room with Wright WPA 3.5 watt monblocks, would say a Don Garber FI 2A3 possibly put out higher SPL's? I would think the output would still be limited by the low power of the 2A3 tube, correct? Thanks for any insight you may be able to provide, as this is my first venture into the "SET" world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I would think the output would still be limited by the low power of the 2A3 tube, correct? That's my understanding unless you go to a push/pull type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Different amps also respond speaker loads differently. More efficient speakers help, of course. A constant impedance crossover helps, too. What do you mean by satisfactory? My Moondogs are more than satisfactory for music in my home, powering my LaScalas. Others would not think so. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 A 2A3 in single ended mode is going to give you about 3.5 watts clean a little moe not so clean for peaks. I have an Antique Sound Labs Tulip stereo 2A3 amp with some upgrades and it is a lovely amp to listen to with impressive bass weight and control. Any amp is going to be as good sounding as its supply and circuit will allow.They will all sound a little different. I spent some time listening to a Serious Stereo 2A3 design which the designer said was set up for a 1/2 a watt per channel and on efficient speakers if really seemed like a 200 watt amp that just did not play as loud. Probably one of the finest sounding amps I have ever heard. Another superb sounding tube is the 6BM8 which in Japan is as well thought of as the 300B in America. A 6V6 run as a triode is also a superb tube. As a pentode a 6V6 will give you more power and a lot of solid punch. Big iron rules the day when it comes to tube amps. As to your question of playback level, with a speaker efficiency of 95 db or more you can play fairly loud with a couple of watts. You will have to decide for yourself how much power you will require. Check out some flea power amps and see for yourself. Be aware that a really good sounding powerful flea power amp is not going to be tiny in size. Hope this is of some use. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 A 2A3 in single ended mode is going to give you about 3.5 watts clean a little moe not so clean for peaks. I have an Antique Sound Labs Tulip stereo 2A3 amp with some upgrades and it is a lovely amp to listen to with impressive bass weight and control. Any amp is going to be as good sounding as its supply and circuit will allow.They will all sound a little different. I spent some time listening to a Serious Stereo 2A3 design which the designer said was set up for a 1/2 a watt per channel and on efficient speakers if really seemed like a 200 watt amp that just did not play as loud. Probably one of the finest sounding amps I have ever heard. Another superb sounding tube is the 6BM8 which in Japan is as well thought of as the 300B in America. A 6V6 run as a triode is also a superb tube. As a pentode a 6V6 will give you more power and a lot of solid punch. Big iron rules the day when it comes to tube amps. Hope this is of some use. As to level that will depend uponn your speakers efficiency and your desired listening level. That said you can play louder than most folks want to listen at with a couple of watts. Check out some flea power amps and decide for yourself. Be aware that a good flea power amp is not going to be a tiny one. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssh Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 My JFL2A3s supposedly peak at twice that, but they aren't good listening at those kinds of levels. My P-CATs are for listening to then. If I want over 95dbl, it's the P-CATs. The 2A3s are beautiful under that. I assume that the JFLs have some headroom that you don't have with the Wrights, but any 2A3 will run out of gas before hard-rock-heavy dbls. SSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankphess Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Thanks for all the replies. I can get some decent volume out of the Wright's and they are very quiet, and I can see how the "SET" sound is appealing, they just don't produce high enough SPL's in my room that I want on occaision, (without cranking the pre which I'd prefer not to do.) If my room was half the size from ~35' x 15' to say 20' x 15', I think these Wrights would be a much better performer. I was used to VRD's with RF-7's which I ran in Ultra linear. I've since switched to Cain & Cain Abby's with nearfield drivers (and Klipsh RB-75's on occaision) that I started using with the VRD's in triode, and with the Cain's the VRD's sound absolutely wonderful, but of course I wanted to see what the "SET" amp could bring to the table. My next experiment will be to swap out the Fostex "nearfield" driver with a "normal" driver to see how it performs with the Wrights. Thanks again, Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 If adding some gain via the pre amp gets you there for the times you want the extra level and things are still quiet enough (noise wise) for you why is there an issue? Not sure what you are referring to with regards to swapping out your Fostex can you elaborate? Regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankphess Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 I'm used to having the volume on the Peach preamp to approx. 11:00 o'clock (normal @ 9:00 o'clock) and keeping left/right balances @ 1:00 o'clock for maximum listtening levels with VRD's. With the Wright's I need to crank the volume to about 2:00 o'clock, then also increase the left right balances to about 3:00 o'clock for sufficient levels, and even then, in some instances would like more volume. The Cain & Cain Abby's/Super Abby's can be purchased with (2) different Fostex drivers. One is called a "nearfield", being a Fostex FF165k for situations where the listener is between 6-8 feet from the speaker, and/or for smaller rooms. The second option is a "normal" driver, a Fostex FE166e which is for larger rooms and listener-to-speaker distances greater than 6 to 8 ft. Currently, I have only the "nearfield" driver but am making arrangements to aquire a "normal" driver which may work better with the 2A3 amplifier. Below is a link with more info. http://www.soundscapehifi.com/cain.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I have not looked for a while but the Fostex drivers you mention have fairly similar efficiency ratings. At a guess the FF165k is probably a tad higher compared to the Fe166e but don't quote me on that. You can talk to the manufacturer about having the input sensitivity of your Wright 2A3 amps adjusted. You did not mention it but subs would also go a long way to obtaining more out of your speakers. Good luck and havefun. By the way it was in the Cain room at the RMAF some years back I listened to the Serious Stereo amps. They are most impressive. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 A 6V6 run as a triode is also a superb tube. As a pentode a 6V6 will give you more power and a lot of solid punch. Big iron rules the day when it comes to tube amps. Hope this is of some use. As to level that will depend uponn your speakers efficiency and your desired listening level. That said you can play louder than most folks want to listen at with a couple of watts. Check out some flea power amps and decide for yourself. Be aware that a good flea power amp is not going to be a tiny one. Best regards Moray James. The 6V6 family of tubes, unless you really push them, will only generate 1 watt +/- when triode strapped. But, as mentioned, the sound can be wonderful. Even such little power, however, can generate very substantial sound pressure levels with high efficiency speakers in rooms of moderate size. Bass ouput, when used with large output transformers (like the Hammond 1628SEA) can be quite surprising! In fact, one of the most popular amp designs which we turned out in the shop, usually for K-horn/La Scala/Cornwall owners, used either a triode strapped 6AQ5 or 6CM6 (both nearly identical electrically to the 6V6) coupled to a Hammond 125ESE (the performance of which will get you very close to that of the really big opts). We built them as individual mono amps which sold for $650-$850/pair depending on the choice of chassis, and people absolutely loved them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 The 6v6 is one of the few audio specific tubes out there and yes not a lot of power in SE mode but very sweet, actually in pentode they sound very good too with a lot more jam. The 6AQ5 is like the mini version of a 6V6 (forget the number of pins) heard it once in an amp and I got the impression the smaller size was less microphonic I was very impressed with the sound. The 6BQ5 (EL84) is a nice tube also lots around. I built a SE 6V6 in triode with small walnut size OT from a consel radio only about 3/4 of a watt at best was just to see what they would sound like. I was really surprised to hear just how much level was possible with less than a watt and I was not using speakers any more than 90 db efficient at the time. That was with junker transformers. Good iron would have made a world of difference.The 2A3 is a really solid well balanced tube got pretty much everything bass mid top space detail sweet controlled sounding tube. Well worth an audition. The Serious Stereo really were special but very expensive 10 -12 K range for a pair. Made a lot of jaws drop that I can confirm. I listened to them mostly in Terry Cain's room at RMAF, Terry died in Dec of that year I think. I remember helping to pack up his car and thinking he looked so very tired that wasted tired you get when you are sick really sick. Nice man Terry.I feel fortunate to have met him in Denver. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J M O N Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I have a set of the Wright 3.5s and once owned a FI X amp. Both will get to about the same volume level. With Klipschorns, I could get to some pretty amazing volume levels from a 2A3 SET -- significantly louder than my normal listening levels. From a sound perspective, I preferred the Wrights a little more than the Fi. The X was a pretty interesting looking amp though. I didn't have any trouble selling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 The Wright 3.5 SETs are class A1, meaning that they will allow grid current to flow on peaks and deliver 8 watts if needed. They are very nice, low gain , and they like some preamps better than others, usually those with substancial gain. Many reviewrs found that the Wright preamps were the best match. Comparing the volume settings to sound levels is meaningless for a couple of reasons. Not all volume controls use the same taper rate. Some "open faster" and you are almost full at half scale, others hit that nearer full scale. The other thing is that the power amp has an input sensitivity value that determines how much voltage from the preamp it takes to deliver rated power. This is nominally considered about one volt, but many amps are nearer half that and other are twice that. Different power amp input sensitivitys will look like different volume settings on the preamp to get the same level. Likewise, different sources to the preamp can cause a similar appearent discrepancy. The nominal voltage value from a phono EQ to the preamp is about half modern digital sources, and this shows up as needing less volume compared to records. Sometimes folks notice that an amp may increase in volume quickly as they turn it up through the low range, and mistakenly assume that this continues with further turning up of the volume. But once the voltage from the preamp to the power amp reaches the input sensitity of the power amp, the volume control is pretty much finished... further increases don't deliver greater levels and may just overdrive the power amp. That point can be just about anywhere on the volume scale dial. Even we SET listeners like to play at louder than normal SET levels from time to time. What I did was find a very nice solid state integrated amp from the early 70's (Sansui) that is a little gem of a clean, warm, nice sounding amp with a superior phono EQ. It cost almost nothing to aquire, just a few evenings to clean up, test, align, and adjust to perfection. If your speaker experiments don't get you higher into the dB's, you might consider a second amp for louder play. I notice that when I put the second amp into service I like it very much; but when I go back to the SETs I get to re-experience the transition into SET wonderfulness all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 My JFL2A3s supposedly peak at twice that, but they aren't good listening at those kinds of levels. My P-CATs are for listening to then. If I want over 95dbl, it's the P-CATs. The 2A3s are beautiful under that. I assume that the JFLs have some headroom that you don't have with the Wrights, but any 2A3 will run out of gas before hard-rock-heavy dbls. SSH Fellow JFL Horus amp owner here. Jeff told me that my amps would put out 1.8wpc. Beautiful sounding amps. I don't think I could ever part with them. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssh Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Beautiful amps, Greg. I emailed with Jeff about them before and after they were created. My amps preceeded the Horus design. Jeff built them for himself, and if I ever sold them, he'd get the first opportunity to buy them back. SSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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