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"Timbre Match"


Big Dog

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You should listen to the AVR sending out the band limited narrow frequency (pink noise) the tone should be same when it arrives on centre front when it sounds and leaves left channel then passes lastly on right. Thats tonal matched.

There might be some odd bumps and dips that can be handled by 1/3 octave EQ and 31 band RTA while outputting a stable wideband (pink noise) for each channel while making small cuts in the frequencies that are slightly peaking higher over the next band and the next loudspeaker. It might take hours or days to EQ it.

Once its all set up listen to film that has duologue panning. Sadly not many films today use this technique you, might hear it on the odd film now and then over the course of year.

Indiana Jones and the temple of Doom (this one used dialogue pans though most of the film)

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (this film used a lot of hard to half-dialogue pans)

Star Trek the motion picture (uses off-screen hard dialogue pans that then move to centre)

Star Trek IV the voyage home (used dialogue sound like effects when the computer is questioning Spock, the voices move over LCR and sound effects have brilliant timber balance matching very complex Dolby film mix)

My Fair Lady ( uses dialogue panning from hard left-right to half pans left-right or parts of the centre has the dialogue while another half is paned slightly to left or right) You need a good ear to spot this!

The above is just a small portion!

If you sent the LCRS into an audio mixer then route one channel out from the mixer into a single loudspeaker. Set the pan pots centred. Set up an SPL db metre and aim for soft level say, 70db play the AVR pink noise the and set the balance on the fader sliders on the mixer until all channels read the same SPL 70db.

Then continue to listen! The pink noise sounds like a continuous pink noise sound!! Change any phase nothing will happen! Change the level of the EQ pots and yes one channel will stand out as being off by +/- 2db.

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Gordon Bennett! Why is the text all merging as one cluster text! SIGH Is there a text button of some sort on the site to correct this?

Also a lot of films some might have left and right front so damn high in level it drowns out the centre mix and the centre doesnt just carry dialogue. It carries effects and music as well and taming the left and right with audio limiters is a bit tricky from what I tried. Also centre can get out of hand sometimes being so damn high it masks the left and right half pan sounds as some portions of the half pan is also in the centre mix unless its a hard pan 100% left or right.

Some films tend to mix music to left and right and stereo surrounds while effects are carried in left right front centre and stereo surrounds and yes LFE.1. Im thinking of Broken Arrow (1996) the opening has score on left and right and stereo surrounds. Centre carries Foley effects and dialogue.

DyanamicEQ has worked to some success with taming LCR on the nosiest of films like War of the Worlds (2005) when Tom Cruise runs from rear shop door out onto the street while the Tri-pod inflames the people and buildings to hard left and hard right! The centre carries mild effects of the explosions if memory recalls! Foley footsteps are heard and breathing/panting as hes running flat-out is clearly heard! It takes some fiddling to get the dynamicEQ to make the LCR flow smoothly without busting youre in ears in with stilly SPL db as over 90db for long periods will lead to some hearing loss over time! 85db is an acceptable level for mid to high range tones.

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Gordon Bennett!

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/gordon-bennett.html

Thanks for that one - I didn't know it. [;)]

I think you are probably using a browser other than IE or Firefox. I wish that I had the solution for you. Are you using something like Opera or Safari? Maybe someone here will chime in to unlock the puzzle...

Chris

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Gordon Bennett!

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/gordon-bennett.html

Thanks for that one - I didn't know it. Wink

I think you are probably using a browser other than IE or Firefox. I wish that I had the solution for you. Are you using something like Opera or Safari? Maybe someone here will chime in to unlock the puzzle...

Chris

I'll try and type using the sites own text page (rather than copy pasting the text into the sites own system. Okay I'll type below this now...

I guess the text on this line here as merged with the text above? I'm just using Google no Firefox just Google.

None of the above that you mentioned just Google chrome. I noticed other members text is all jumbled up SIGH i guess they have the same issue, no matter I'll just type. LOL What day its been! Earthquakes that sucks! [:(]

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The issue of line spacing is coverev in other areas on the forum but let me help.

Type (SHIFT ",") p (SHIFT".)" at the end of a line, it will give you a paragraph break (double spaced). ( SHIFT ",") br (SHIFT".") will give you a break which just starts the text on the next line.

Hope this Helps for the spacing.

I do not remember how to show how it actually looks typed anymore.

On timbre matching, if you like it how it is, leave it. Once you switch to timbre matched, you will hear it without. Just my thought. Do not push the issue now if you are happy. Just know others like it, and they are not wrong. But As is said here so much, it is all about what you like to hear.

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The issue of line spacing is coverev in other areas on the forum but let me help.

Type (SHIFT ",") p (SHIFT".)" at the end of a line, it will give you a paragraph break (double spaced). ( SHIFT ",") br (SHIFT".") will give you a break which just starts the text on the next line.

Hope this Helps for the spacing.

I do not remember how to show how it actually looks typed anymore.

On timbre matching, if you like it how it is, leave it. Once you switch to timbre matched, you will hear it without. Just my thought. Do not push the issue now if you are happy. Just know others like it, and they are not wrong. But As is said here so much, it is all about what you like to hear.

Okay lets see if this works then!

Let see if the text is below! It worked! Cheers for that insight that's made me feel a lot better cheers!

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If u had the three speakers up fron the same.... left center n right.... You might be supprized just how nice it does blend = Timbre match.

Some go as far as the sides and rears, with a careful match of a good sub in the same class too.

I have heard a Heresey 5.1 systemthat rocked..... add the sub...and it just blew me away too...

Maybe I am spoiled, but is something to experience a car driving left to center to right........accross the screen then off the camera and it is not wooshh wee whoosh but totally seamless so you can just experience the depth of the movie without any audio distractions. maybe that is it... You get the real depth of the audio with Correct Timbre and I do not care what anyone else sais... you need and do that with the same speakers accross the front to achieve that.

my 2 cents.

THIS :-)

I don't care what your budget is - any HT enthusiast here reading this should want what Indy is talking about here. The man knows what he types here.

The problem is 20+ years of "programming" by the electronic manufacturers on the planet who think that those "made for HT center speakers" are the way to build an HT, because they programmed you into choosing the TV FIRST.

This is incorrect. Time for us to reprogram you.

Especially now, with all manner of wall mountable HD displays being the norm, the HT shop and/or salesman of your choice should be showing you that FULL SIZED CENTER, a "third main" which is capable of handling that 75ish percent of program material that gets run through it. Figure out the center speaker FIRST, then choose a display that will work around it. This speaker is very bit as important in building a true "best quality" HT as your display is. This way, the spoken dialogue will be fully intelligible, and your center won't puke when the full power of that 75% kicks in.

If you are starting from scratch - or are looking for that truly meaningful upgrade - how's your three full sized mains in your HT looking? Don't have this? There's your upgrade.....

Lemme tell ya....six Cornwalls in the HT ROCK. And with a pair of JBL 4638 twin 15 bass cabs, it's effortless, seamless, high impact performance. FOR LIFE. No hi-fi shop would have sold me this, but I found out why and how to do this here.

THINK BIG[H]

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I agree with the EGO (I can notice) thing. Also some people are just really "into" the whole forum thing and feel the need to spout their opinions as gospel. FWIW some of these same people will swear to you that god is real with no prooof! lol.

"Timbre is a multidimensional wastebasket category for everything that cannot be qualified as pitch or loudness"

Basically it is what would distinguish a flute and sax when they are playing the same note. If your speakers are vastly different in in almost everyway then sure I can see how you can hear the difference. When your talking about a set of speakers like the Klipsch F3 and your center is the RC 52 then I will bet my house that nobody would be able to blindly tell the difference while watching a movie. Let's also not forget that everyone has 2 different ears. What tones and pitch you hear in one may sound different in the other. I know if you ask around everyone will agree that what sounds good to one person may not sound good to another. We are all on the klipsch forum so I would say we all like the Klipsch sound. However go to another forum for paradigm or polk and you will surprisingly find people that like those speakers better than Klipsch! lol

I guess my advise would be try not to be a slave to specs. Listen to the speakers before you buy (if you can) and decide what you like. Try a Timbre matched front set. Try unmatched, try all 3 of the same speakers across the front. It's your money and you have to listen to and look at your HT so better make sure you like it. Honesly for me the way the HT looks is absolutely important. It needs to sound good to me but it also needs to be easy on my eyes.[H] You can have the best "specs" on earth but if you don't like the sound then what difference does it make?

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FWIW some of these same people will swear to you that god is real with no prooof! lol.

I don't need "proof" to know He is real. [;)]

As far as timbre matching, I agree with you Jason. My ears are not what I would consider as "critical". I would be one of the guys that probably could not tell that a center was not timbre matched to the front speakers in a blind test unless it was drastically different.

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Lol youthman. Yeah I would say that the ten years of loud work and play noise my ears are not what they once were. I'm pretty sure at this point I'm just upgrading for the cool look factor! Just dropped $1000 on a very cool looking new center speaker, would not have done it if it wasn't so pretty....and when I upgrade to the RF 7ii's it will be cause they look so cool!

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I'm pretty sure at this point I'm just upgrading for the cool look factor!

I don't see anything wrong with that. [:D]

Just dropped $1000 on a very cool looking new center speaker

Oh but it's much more than just a pretty center. It's going to rock your world.

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I’ve had 7 different center channel speakers over the last 10 years (5 being klipsch) when I bought the rc-64ii I had the rf-82s it still sounded good but it was definitely a different sound. I think the comparison to having a front and the center as a pair of stereo speakers is a great example that I never thought of but is so true. I would live with what you got tell you want to upgrade then look forward to the rf-82 down the road, I had that set up and it’s amazing. Seems like every time I buy a new center I end up buying all new stuff.[:D]
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FWIW some of these same people will swear to you that god is real with no prooof! lol.

He is real to me... And look all around you for proof. Maybe this will help you...

How do you know God exists?



Is there truly a God? How can anyone be sure such a being exists?


We believe that the existence of God, and questions such
as these relating to it, can be intelligently answered. The reason we
know that God exists is because He has told us so, and has revealed
Himself to us.
It would be no help to us at
all in our human predicament if God were silent, but happily this is not
the case. God not only exists, but also He has communicated that fact
to us. He has told us all about who He is, what He is like and what His
plan is for planet earth.


He has revealed these things to mankind through the
Bible. The Bible has demonstrated itself to be more than a mere book; it
is the actual Word of God. The evidence is more than convincing to
anyone who will honestly consider its claims.


Because of the boasts the Bible makes for itself, many have tried to destroy it, as related in this statement by Martin Luther:


Mighty potentates have raged against this book,
and sought to destroy and uproot it—Alexander the Great and princes of
Egypt and Babylon, the monarchs of Persia, of Greece and of Rome, the
Emperors Julius and Augustus—but they prevailed nothing.


They are gone
while the book remains, and it will remain forever and ever, perfect and
entire as it was declared at first. Who has thus helped it—who has
protected it against such mighty forces? No one, surely, but God
Himself, who is master of all things.
(cited by Fritz Ridenour, Who Says, G/L Publications, Regal Books, 1967)



Even the French skeptic, Rousseau, saw something
different in the Scriptures. "I must confess to you that the majesty of
the Scriptures astonishes me; the holiness of the evangelists speaks to
my heart and has such striking characters of truth, and is, moreover, so
perfectly inimitable, that if it had been the invention of men, the
inventors would be greater than the greatest heroes" (Frank Mead,
Encyclopedia of Religious Quotations, p. 32).


The Bible, therefore, gives us sufficient reason to
believe that it is the Word of the living God, who does exist and who
has revealed Himself to the world.


Another reason that we know God exists is because He has
appeared in human flesh. Jesus Christ was God Almighty who became a man.
The Bible says, "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us" (John 1:14,
RSV), and it is clear about the fact that Jesus came to earth to reveal
who God is and what He is all about (John 1:18).


If someone wants to know who God is and what He is like,
he only needs to look at Jesus Christ. As Lord Byron said, "If ever man
was God or God was man, Jesus Christ was both" (Frank Mead,
Encyclopedia of Religious Quotations, p. 81).


Instead of man reaching up to find God, God reached down
to man, as Casserley explains, "The gospel provides that knowledge of
ultimate truth which men have sought through philosophy in vain,
inevitably in vain, because it is essential to the very nature of God
that He cannot be discovered by searching and probing of human minds,
that He can only be known if He first takes the initiative and reveals
Himself (J. V. Langmead Casserley,
The Christian in Philosophy, New York, Charles Scribner's Sons, 1951, p. 21).


Jesus, in coming back from the dead, established Himself
as having the credentials to be God, and it was this fact that
demonstrated its truth to the unbelieving world. As Machen says, "The
great weapon with which the disciples of Jesus set out to conquer the
world was not a mere comprehension of eternal principles; it was a
historical message, an account of something that had happened; it was
the message, 'He is risen'" (J. G. Machen,
Christianity and Liberalism, pp. 28, 29).


Thus we have the Bible, and the person of Jesus Christ,
as two strong reasons arguing for the existence of God. No other
religion or philosophy offers anything near to demonstrate that a God
exists.




ADDITIONAL REFERENCE SOURCES

Craig, William Lane.
The Existence of God and the Beginning of the Universe. San Bernardino, Calif.: Here'sLife Pubs., 1979.

Geisler, Norman.
Philosophy of Religion. Grand Rapids:Zondervan, 1974. Plantinga, Alvin. God and Other Minds. Ithaca, N.Y.:Cornell Univ. Press, 1967.

Schaeffer, Francis. He Is There and He Is Not Silent. Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House, 1972. -. The God Who Is There. Downers Grove, Ill.:InterVarsity Press, 1974.

Sire, James.
The Universe Next Door. Downers Grove, Ill.:InterVarsity Press, 1976.

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