mustang guy Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I have a very large gathering room. The ceilings are 20', and the room dimensions are 50' X 50'. I currently have an Integra Receiver with 110 watts/ channel, and Paradigm Cinema 220's and a Paradign 12" powered sub and a 55" flat panel TV on the wall. This setup is OK when a group just wants to sit and watch a show or a movie, but when we want to turn the volume up, the system just doesn't hit hard enough. I want to be able to turn on some AC/DC, Aerosmith, or Stones, and wake up the 70's in a big way. I also LOVE the blues if that matters in your advice(s). I am willing to just get a CD player, amp/preamp (tubetype if needed), and a couple big *** speakers, and have them seperate from the 5.1 system. What setup do you recommend I buy to fill this room? What should I spend? ( I do have money, but I don't like throwing it away needlessly.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted March 13, 2011 Moderators Share Posted March 13, 2011 Welcome There are some bigger models that would work but are a little harder to come by. So I would say a pair of LaScalas and a sub better than the 12" you have now. The sub can be DIY for something big enough for that size room and a pair of LaScalas would sound great in a room that size. Both together could easily play OVER 30-50 people being loud much less sitting and watching a show or a movie. If you want to go nut's 5 LaScalas and a sub with your receiver would make a big room come alive with movies and music, I have heard one like that and it's tough to beat. Have you heard the Lascalas or other Klipsch ? That's one opinion. [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 In that size room, several subs and Lascalas, or if you have some corners available, Klipschorns would likely fill better with a Lascala if you want 5 channel. You should be looking at Heritage type Klipsch, older Cornwalls and Chorus speakers would also do. Klipsch does sell new Cornwall III's, LaScalas, and K-horns that would fit the bill without any problem. Normal speakers like Paradigm are not up to the task of such a large room unless you have a bunch of them. BTW, you might even look for quality Pro speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 I have heard all of the vintage Klipsch speakers. I demo-ed them back in college, but could not afford them. [] . . . Now I can. [] What I wasn't sure of was the type of amp vintage Klipsch worked with. So you are saying the Integra would work fine with the lascala or cornwalls, right? Why would I need a sub? Don't those things have great frequency response? What about the cable size? There is a 100' or more cable going to the far speakers. What guage would you recommend? One more thing. A lascala for a center speaker? Where the hell would I put that? [] Thanks all! [D] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 You receiver will work fine with LaScalas, not that you couldn't do better but it's good enough for now. The LaScalas were designed to fill a large space so they would be my first choice. They were not designed to go really low, so a good sub would be important, for a space as big as yours you will want a better sub, maybe even a 15 inch driver and with good power. 100 feet of cable is a long run, try to make it shorter if you can (even if it's more work). I'm thinking at least 12 gauge wire. Thanx, Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted March 13, 2011 Moderators Share Posted March 13, 2011 One more thing. A lascala for a center speaker? Where the hell would I put that? In the front center. [] If that's to big, these would be out of the question.....[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Where the hell do you think you are putting that? In the garage dear, would you think that will be alright, I'll move the clothesline so they wont be in your way? Wife stomps off. "What did I say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 Thank you for all the great advise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 In that size room, several subs and Lascalas, or if you have some corners available, Klipschorns would likely fill better with a Lascala if you want 5 channel. I agree. Be sure to get a sub that could be turned up enough -- either with its own control, or with the sub control on the receiver -- to match the incredible efficiency of the La Scala or the Klipschorns. What is the SPL@ 1watt @ 1 meter of your current speakers? The older Paradigms I'm familiar with were rated at 89 dB in an anechoic chamber, and 92 in the "average" room. Switching to Khorns or La Scalas with an appropriate powered sub would be like switching to a receiver that is more than 10 times as powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I demo-ed them back in college, but could not afford them. . . . Now I can. If you can afford them used, I'd probably look at LaScalas or Khorns. If you can afford them new, I'd strongly suggest you do a search on "Jublee" and brew a fresh pot while you read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 Can somebody tell me what the Jubilee speaker is? I did the search and read for about a half hour and now have a headache. From what I gather it is a cinema Klipsch with a built in mono amp. Actually I have no frikin idea what one is. [:^)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crown1 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 For that amount of room, LaScalas would be great as long as you can afford them, I think they're something like $6000 per pair though. Budget permitting I think they would be ideal. For almost half the price you could do RF-7s all around and an rc64 as center. This setup can be driven by your receiver, however you should invest in a pre/pro and poweramp for best results. Furthermore, invest in multiple subwoofers,this will produce a much fuller, punchier ,cleaner, and more evenly distributed bottom end. If you like a warm sounding amp (since you mentioned tube amplification), and budget permits, try McIntosh on the higher end , or Rotel on the less expensive end. Yes the less expensive , not low end because Rotel is hardly low end. Also instead of putting so much money into large towers ,you can try a more distributed sound by spending less money by using Klipsch's large bookshelf speakers and multiple subs. Your receiver should handle them just fine, without the need for an additional power amp. this set up can work very well, as it will still work quite efficiently, sounds clean ,plays loud, and costs less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Can somebody tell me what the Jubilee speaker is? The Jubilee was originally the last speaker Paul W. Klipsch helped design. It was to be a replacement for the Klipschorn, and was to be called the "Klipschorn Jubilee." The design work was done by Klipsch engineers Roy Delgado and Paul Klipsch. After Paul died, it was decided to not market it through the conventional Klipsch channels, I suspect because it doesn't look very "living room friendly" due to it's gigantic midrange/treble horn. A version of it (not the only version) became a Klipsch Cinema speaker, and that version has a tweeter in addition to the large horn, reputedly to handle high treble power in a movie theater. Several forum members had Jubilees made up for them through Roy Delgado at Klipsch. I think (don't quite remember) that coytee, bhendrix, and cask were a few of the proud owners. I believe there is a choice between having a passive crossover network or biamping and even electronically time aligning. Virtually everyone I know of who has heard them loves them. I don't think they are available in stores. If I were buying new front speakers, I would certainly travel anywhere in the US to hear them, and I suspect I would like them better than my beloved Klipschorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 ...you should invest in a pre/pro and poweramp for best results. What is a pre/pro? Is that another term for pre-amp? Do you have a recomendation on pre/pro and poweramp for the reference setup you mentioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Gary nailed it on the head. There is more than one person who's heard them and felt they were among the best they've ever heard. I felt that way so I bought a pair. They'll do just about anything that any other speaker will do. You might not feel the need for a sub (I don't) but you might still want one (I do) for that last ounce of ultimate sound. Here is what they can look like as contrasted with the black industrial version. Where are you located? If someone has a pair near you I'm sure they'd love to share them. Besides, as you said above "I do have money, but I don't like throwing it away needlessly"...if and once you hear a pair, you might feel that buying anything other, is throwing away your money needlessly! I'll step up and say, if you are ever in/near Knoxville, you are welcome to come by and hear mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 ...you should invest in a pre/pro and poweramp for best results. What is a pre/pro? Is that another term for pre-amp? Do you have a recomendation on pre/pro and poweramp for the reference setup you mentioned? A pre/pro is a pre-amp processor. There is often a tuner included. It does what a pre-amp does (although a few don't have a phono section, so to use a phono cartridge, you would have to plug in an outboard "black box" to handle phono) PLUS they offer processing with a (usually) wide range of options, including the multi-channel Dolby and DTS decoding of DVDs, and the newer models process the superior, uncompressed, Blu-ray sound for Blu-ray movies. Many will also provide some level of digital processing for SACD, a superior music only multichannel format. Some pre/pros by several different companies include the patented Audyssey room and speaker equalization in both the frequency and the time domain. Some include the choice of Audyssey or Audyssey FLAT; the latter does not use the treble roll-off in the top octave of overtones that some people prefer. I think I will prefer the FLAT option, but I won't know until I have it in the room. I am looking for a pre/pro right now, and think I have decided on the Marantz AV7005 that does everything mentioned above (including phono), at $1,500. I will use the power amps I already have (2 -2 chanel NAD 150 wts per chammel, and an extra channel from a Yamaha 135 wt amp, making 5 channels). It's a new world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crown1 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 ...you should invest in a pre/pro and poweramp for best results. What is a pre/pro? Is that another term for pre-amp? Do you have a recomendation on pre/pro and poweramp for the reference setup you mentioned? A pre/pro is a pre-amp processor. There is often a tuner included. It does what a pre-amp does (although a few don't have a phono section, so to use a phono cartridge, you would have to plug in an outboard "black box" to handle phono) PLUS they offer processing with a (usually) wide range of options, including the multi-channel Dolby and DTS decoding of DVDs, and the newer models process the superior, uncompressed, Blu-ray sound for Blu-ray movies. Many will also provide some level of digital processing for SACD, a superior music only multichannel format. Some pre/pros by several different companies include the patented Audyssey room and speaker equalization in both the frequency and the time domain. Some include the choice of Audyssey or Audyssey FLAT; the latter does not use the treble roll-off in the top octave of overtones that some people prefer. I think I will prefer the FLAT option, but I won't know until I have it in the room. I am looking for a pre/pro right now, and think I have decided on the Marantz AV7005 that does everything mentioned above (including phono), at $1,500. I will use the power amps I already have (2 -2 chanel NAD 150 wts per chammel, and an extra channel from a Yamaha 135 wt amp, making 5 channels). It's a new world! To the gentleman who wrote the above description, well done. By the way Mustang Guy, the preamp/processor which was mentioned is a good one and can be had with an 8 channel Marantz power amp for around $5000 as a package ( or maybe even less depending on the dealer ) . I like Marantz because their electronics are usually well built, last long, and last but not least , have a very clean but warm sound to them. This combination works well with Klipsch speakers being that Klipsch speakers are usually very revealing,so you want to put them with electronics which are also revealing, yet smooth so as to avoid ear fatigue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 ...By the way Mustang Guy, the preamp/processor which was mentioned is a good one and can be had with an 8 channel Marantz power amp for around $5000 as a package ( or maybe even less depending on the dealer ) . I like Marantz because their electronics are usually well built, last long, and last but not least , have a very clean but warm sound to them. This combination works well with Klipsch speakers being that Klipsch speakers are usually very revealing,so you want to put them with electronics which are also revealing, yet smooth so as to avoid ear fatigue. The Marantz AV7005 lists for $1,500. The the Marantz MM8003 is available on Ebay for about $1900. That is MSRP $3,400. Is it the MM8003 you were referring to? Crutchfield has it as discontinued. I see Marantz 8B's all the time on Ebay for $1,500 or so. What about 3 of those jewels running off the AV7005? That would raise the ante to $6K, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I am willing to just get a CD player, amp/preamp (tubetype if needed), and a couple big *** speakers, and have them seperate from the 5.1 system. What setup do you recommend I buy to fill this room? What should I spend? ( I do have money, but I don't like throwing it away needlessly.) That can be an economical solution. They'll fill up a large shop, 50x50 would be no problem. You can find KP-250's used for about 400.00, add some decent subs and you're good to go. You can pair them with pro amps, which are economical also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 ...By the way Mustang Guy, the preamp/processor which was mentioned is a good one and can be had with an 8 channel Marantz power amp for around $5000 as a package ( or maybe even less depending on the dealer ) . I like Marantz because their electronics are usually well built, last long, and last but not least , have a very clean but warm sound to them. This combination works well with Klipsch speakers being that Klipsch speakers are usually very revealing,so you want to put them with electronics which are also revealing, yet smooth so as to avoid ear fatigue. The Marantz AV7005 lists for $1,500. The the Marantz MM8003 is available on Ebay for about $1900. That is MSRP $3,400. Is it the MM8003 you were referring to? Crutchfield has it as discontinued. I see Marantz 8B's all the time on Ebay for $1,500 or so. What about 3 of those jewels running off the AV7005? That would raise the ante to $6K, though. FYI: There were three positive reviews of the Marantz AV7005, and that resulted in a temporery shortage, according to my dealer. Mine is on back-order. They are designed in Japan, but made in China (like nearly everything else). USMarantz distributes them in the USA. Buying new & current Marantz gear is an opportunity to support old fashioned brick-and -mortor dealers, since the new items are no cheaper through the discount-by-mail people (Marantz goes after catalog dealers who cut the price -- that didn't stop one catalog from advertizing "lowest price" on the AV7005, which is technically true, since they sell for the same $1,499 everywhere!). With the catalogs, you usually pay shipping, but not at most brick and mortor shops. Ebay, of course, is another story. Just curious, mustang guy, is your shop a shop in the sense of a workshop, or a shop in the sense of a store? I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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