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To toe or not to toe? that is the question


Marathon Man
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Re: front speakers, Toe in or straight ahead? what is your opinion? I currently toe the fronts into the main listening position for a tighter sound stage, but I have been thinking about positioning the speakers more straight ahead. This should not be a problem with K-horns due to the degree of angel on the horn. See Im from the old school before multi channel sound was available. Well thats not totally true. There once was a myth of a 4 track recording called quad but thats a different story. Anyway in two channel stereo it was said its best to toe the speakers into the listening position to create the right imaging on vocals, but what about home theater with its 5.1 surround? With the use of a center channel that nails the vocals to the center would the sound stage sound more real if the speakers were not toed in? Im sure that it would give you a more airy sound, and make your room feel larger. I want to try it but like you I have spent a lot of time setting my front speakers to what I think is perfect, and Im lazy and don't want to tape their outline to the floor so when I move them back they can be close to where they were. So what do you think? Turn em out or leave em in?

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MM

This message has been edited by Marathon Man on 04-22-2002 at 03:55 PM

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M Man

I would say IMHO if you toe them in now for a better 2 channel sound, you should leave them that way for a 5.1 presuming you are seated in the same location for the HT.

The only thing you will gain by putting them tight in the corner is deeper bass. Which can be compensated in other ways much more easily than duplicating the sweet spot correction of your toe in.

JM

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m-man, LOL on the quad. i was a victim of that in the early seventies. pioneer QX-747. i had all 4 of my speaks toed in for that including the pa speaker & drive-in speaker (then couldn't afford 4 real speakers Smile.gif). LOL

i think whether to do that now depends a lot on your room & set-up. maybe just toe 'em slightly. takes some experimenting.

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My Home Systems Page

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boa12,

Ah! you rember those days hu. yep those were the good ole days. Now look at us. I still use a old SAE pre/amp and two channel Nikko Alpha 440 power amp. That stuff was build like a mac truck, and I will most likely have it forever. That power amp has not been turned off in now I guess over 6 years, and it still sounds good. I got that thing back in 1979. This is a two channel amp and it has to weigh about 70 lb's. I know that technology has come a long way but that stuff was built to last.

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MM

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I toe in ALL my speakers,all of them.From the VideoLogic SiroccoPro sats to the Klipsch RF-7's,Spendor FL10's all my speakers are toed in.

Just my subs are not. LOL Talk about imaging loss here.

Wink.gif

Heck even in the bathroom the Paradigm Micro are toed in on the toilet! So I can hear soothing poop mucic better. cwm27.gif Sorry I wanted to say POP music.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

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For HT, I toe the Mains and Front Effects and tilt the Center to toward where my ears are in the center of the sweet spot... for a more revealing soundstage.

The Side-Surround monopoles are not toed but face each other about a foot or two behind where my head is in the sweet spot and the Rear Effects is dead center on the back wall and facing the sweet spot to provide a better ambient effect on less well mixed source material. -HornED

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I find toe in very necessary. When I picked up my Cornwall II's the seller had them set up on each side of his entertainment center pointing straight ahead - and they sounded average, at best. I was able to tell that the speakers were in good working order, but suffered sonically because of it. No wonder he sold them - he had little flexibility in placement, so he was not getting the performance he should have.

The slightest adjustments in toe alter the soundstage - it is a difference that even my wife picks up on. When I first got the Cornwalls home, the different placements and toe created quite a variation in sound. This is a problem for those with the larger Klipsch - if there is no room for adjustment in placement, it becomes difficult to maximize their performance.

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First we Rock, then we Roll!

A Beast is Lurking.........To be unleashed May 2002

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Ears,

LOL on the bathroom setup. Thats pretty funny. I can see you sitting there wondering to yourself toe in? toe out? LOL. I think thats the last place I would think to put stereo speakers. There are just some rooms in the house that you need total concentration, because lack there of could cause a mess.... and I do mean litterally.

Thanks for the comments guys.I think I will leave it the way I have it. Its nice to know that in this hobby the one thing you have right, you really do have right.

Boa12,

LOL, I know I did not read that you used a PA speaker and a drive in speaker??? Man I bet that sounded good. Talking about void of bass or anything else for that matter.. LOL

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MM

This message has been edited by Marathon Man on 04-23-2002 at 12:51 PM

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Boa!

Hey, another KR-9600 lover. I sold off all my other '70's recievers, like the Pioneer SX1250, SX 1010 and Sansui DB9090, but I had to keep the Kenwood. I just love the power and sound. Awesome ability to control the sound. But even with all controls set to neutral, it is still the best sounding SS receiver I have heard. I don't think I will ever sell it. It certainly puts my Sony DB950 DTS machine to shame.

jobman

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Im thinking that if Boa12 toed in a PA speaker and a driver-in speaker, and Ears toes in the speakers in front of his toilet, then toe in should indeed be the standard. I am still laughing about that.

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MM

This message has been edited by Marathon Man on 04-23-2002 at 03:12 PM

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See you had to go there.. Smile.gif. My very first piece of decent stereo equipment was an old pioneer ( I have no clue what the model number was ), but this thing had a wooden cabinet with a screen in the top for ventilation. I remember that because I had an old Akia Reel to Reel 7" or so reels, and this thing had a 8 track tape recorder in the side of it. It had its own speakers that had metal flaps that covered them which could be opened for listening. Anyway. I had to be careful not to stack the reel to reel the wrong way or the feet would punch a whole in that screening. This pioneer I know had to be the first or one of the first stereo products that had a remote control of any type. The remote was hard wired to the front of the receiver (plug in din connecter) and you could only use it to move the radio dial. I thought it was the coolest thing. The thing actually sounded very good. I think that receiver is still floating around in my families younger generation to this day. Most likely in somones attic. I can't even remember what type of speakers I used, but Im sure they were make-shift...

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MM

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I toe in my RF-3's toward my listening position, and like to overall imporivement in imaging. Not huge, but noticable.

As far as vintage equipment, I still have an old Rotel RX-803 receiver that is still kicking. It is rated at 75 wpc, but how many 75 wpc receivers do you know of that have heat sink fins across the back?? It has pr-out/in jacks, and when I was a part time mobile disk jockey during my high-school and college days, I used to plug a mixer into the input jacks and use it as a back up amplifier in smaller halls. It kicks *** for 5 - 6 hours at 3/4 volume!! Swear to God that this thing will never die!

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Mike - Livonia, MI

Klipsch RF-3 L/R

Klipsch RC-3 Center

Klipsch RB-5 rears

HSU Research VF-2 Sub

Marantz SR-19EX receiver

Marantz MM-9000 Amp

NAD T550 DVD

Adcom GCD 700 CD

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