Jump to content

Problem with speech/high frequency sounds from my RC-64/RF-83 setup.


wboffthelake

Recommended Posts

Of course I know that CC is designed to handle the human voice I'm very well aware of that,what I'm telling is that I don't have a seamless sound stage due to a probably difference on the crossover points (even tough Klipsch states that both VF35 & VC25 are crossed over at 1900Hz) I use the Avia disc panning pink noise and I got a muffled sound when it passes through the CC. And yes I got the CC connected right and set the receiver at 80Hz,and I'm also use YPAO (Yamaha's Audyssey) and got no improvement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 47
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Of course I know that CC is designed to handle the human voice I'm very well aware of that,what I'm telling is that I don't have a seamless sound stage due to a probably difference on the crossover points (even tough Klipsch states that both VF35 & VC25 are crossed over at 1900 kHz) I use the Avia disc panning pink noise and I got a muffled sound when it passes through the CC. And yes I got the CC connected right and set the receiver at 80Hz,and I'm also use YPAO (Yamaha's Audyssey) and got no improvement.

There might be additional settings on your receiver that you may not be aware of.

"You set the receiver at 80hz"; what does that mean?

(You verified you are running your center 80hz and up; with sound below 80 hz going to your sub?)

Have you checked the speaker straps in the back? (I assume you have straps).... Make sure they are tight and present (They should be on if you are not biamping). Sounds like your treble may not be working..... Easy to check by covering that tweeter horn with some music or sound (someone talking would work).

Anyway; there is my .02.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sometimes, setting the centre speaker to the same volume level as the left and right speakers results in dialog that's a bit hard to hear. Have you tried raising the centre volume 2-4dB? That helped with my system.

You won't get precise tonal matching, even with identical speakers, because they're not in the same place in the room. For example, the side speakers will be closer to the side walls and may even be in corners. That will make a difference that may be difficult to eliminate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks both iron & Islander for your recommendations, yes I got my receiver's crossover set at 80Hz (unfortunately the crossover setting is global and I cant set it for speaker individually) Im pretty sure the tweeter is working fine, see there is no a completely lack of high frequencies in the CC the problem is that those high frequencies don't sound the same on the CC and on the towers it is if they were rollout like other poster was saying it is like if in front of the tweeter were a blanket. In a couple of words the towers are bright and the center is dull.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course I know that CC is designed to handle the human voice I'm very well aware of that,what I'm telling is that I don't have a seamless sound stage due to a probably difference on the crossover points (even tough Klipsch states that both VF35 & VC25 are crossed over at 1900 kHz) I use the Avia disc panning pink noise and I got a muffled sound when it passes through the CC. And yes I got the CC connected right and set the receiver at 80Hz,and I'm also use YPAO (Yamaha's Audyssey) and got no improvement.

"the center is for handling human voices and that is its function so they made it to make speech more intelligible,well that is good as long the CC don't handle other sounds but the CC on movies handle more than voices,I think that is a wrong approach from Klipsch" - I guess I misunderstood...

The center channel from Klipsch is designed to handle front sound stage, but as was pointed out above, the frequency range it is engineered to is typically in the human voice range. The timbre matching of the speakers should give you a "seemless front sound stage" and if you aren't getting it then there is an issue. I was under the impression that the Yamaha RX-V663 could do multiple cross-over settings. My RX-V661 will do that...seems odd. What sub are you using?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing that adds to the frustration of my problem is that the RF-83/RC-64 combo is known not to be a "perfect" match, but has been reviewed to still give a very good front stage . The question is just how far from perfect is the match, and is what I am experiencing outside of the known imperfection? I understand that those with the RF-63/RC-64 experience a seemless front stage. This is to be expected, given the exact match of all drivers, not just the tweeter. But, for me, as with hachuelo, the issue seems to be one with the tweeter and a "muffled" less crisp sound.

I live near Simply Stereo. Last time I was in there they had an RC-64 set up. I'll try and take a ride over there this week and see if I can get some answers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

The thing that adds to the frustration of my problem is that the RF-83/RC-64 combo is known not to be a "perfect" match, but has been reviewed to still give a very good front stage . The question is just how far from perfect is the match, and is what I am experiencing outside of the known imperfection?

I've always felt my RF-83's with the RC-64 has been seemless. I've never noticed anything that sounded different when sound travels from one speaker to the next.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You could try swapping leads with the centre speaker and one of the side speakers. That way, you'll know if the signal from the centre output of the receiver is putting out the highs that it should, or if the speaker has weak highs even when connected to one of the main speaker outlets.

Could it be that the centre speaker's tweeter is not operating, due to either a defect or a bad connection?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anyone know how seamless the front stage is with the RF-7II and RC-64II (respective crossovers of 1200Hz and 1400Hz)? They are similar to the RF-83/RC-64 combo in that the RF-7II and RC-64II have different woofers but the same tweeter. If they are indeed seamless, then so too should be the RF-83/RC-64 (respective crossovers of 1650Hz and 1150Hz/1800Hz (tapered/overall)). Klipsch does not advertise the RC-64II as having the tapered arrray.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Youthman, while watching an HD channel, have you ever listened to, say, sports commentators voices in Dolby Digital, and then switched your receiver from DD to stereo? This is where the difference is most obvious. For me, during stereo, where the announcers voices come strictly from the RF-83s, the high frequency components of the voices become more apparent, along with some low frequency parts too, which is not surprising given the larger woofers. There is more sibilance. When switched back to DD, interestingly the voices are stronger, and in some way clearer, but with some of the high frequency parts missing, resulting in less sibilance and a "dulling" effect that creates a slightly unnatural voice tone. Essentially the performance I'm getting from my RC-64 is "as good as it is bad". The difference was clear during the NBA Finals and while watching NASCAR and Wimbeldon this weekend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the input Islander, but been there, done that, and at the end of my rope with this $1000.00 speaker. The tweeter operates, it just seems that is not operating properly, like you said, with weaker highs. I've played music through it and, while it strongly outputs cymbals, it seems to be missing the highest detail parts of the cymbals.

While my new SC-37 seems to be able to somewhat reduce the problem, I wonder if it us just modifying the sound from the 83s to match the output of the 64.

I'm going to stop in to Simply Stereo this week. They are an authorized dealer and I wonder if they can perform authorized repairs so that I don't have to box up and ship a 70 lb speaker.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lake I dont think your tweeter is bad I think the problem here lies on the speaker internal crossover network,if you are handy on electronics you can clone the crossover (tweeter side) of your mains and make a custom crossover for the cc I bet your cc will handle the highest frequencies just like yor mains. After all the RC64 is just like a regular tower only built for a cc duties and letting alone that the RC64 is the flagship center of the Reference line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Youthman, while watching an HD channel,

No, I only use the HT for movies and gaming. We do not have cable and do not have a TV in the house other than rabbit ears hooked up to the projector [:D]

We may watch one or two hours of regular TV a year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anyone know how seamless the front stage is with the RF-7II and RC-64II (respective crossovers of 1200Hz and 1400Hz)? They are similar to the RF-83/RC-64 combo in that the RF-7II and RC-64II have different woofers but the same tweeter. If they are indeed seamless, then so too should be the RF-83/RC-64 (respective crossovers of 1650Hz and 1150Hz/1800Hz (tapered/overall)). Klipsch does not advertise the RC-64II as having the tapered arrray.



They sound very close. The rf-7ii is huge compared to the
rc-64ii (probably 3x as big at least) and does have overall better sound. The
sound is so much alike that they do sound seamless to my ears though. The rf-83
is a better speaker than the rc-64 as well so I’m sure it has a better sound
also. I would pull the rc-64 out from the bottom of the entertainment cabinet and set it up ear level just to try it
that way and see if it improves the sound. If it does you know its placement.



Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have my RC-64 on a shelf above my TV, about 5 feet off the floor. The RC-64 tweeter is only about 10 inches higher than the tweeters of the RF-83, which flank the TV. This setup should create a seamless front stage. All the issues I have posted about I have heard with the tweeters in this position.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I forget to mention it also occurs during movies, for example, last night I was watching Law Abiding Citizen and was switching between DD and stereo, getting the same effect.

BTW - I'm considering doing much the same as you with respect to a home theater in my basement that I am considering building. I currently do not have an HDTV. I do have an HD box which runs a 480i signal to my TV via S-video and audio to the AVR via HDMI. The biggest issue I have with cable/satellite HD channels is compression which, in my opinion, and to my eyes, drastically takes away from the picture quality on an HDTV. The picture on my 14-year-old SD Mitsubishi destroys the compressed, weak, soft, artifact-plagued HD cable/satellite picture I've seen with respect to sharpness and clarity, which to me are the two most important aspects of a TV's picture. HDTVs do produce brighter, but not necessarilty more accurate, picture and colors. I saw the Pioneer 6020 in person, showing the TDK BluRay, many times at my local Best Buy and, believe it or not, my current TV gives a quite similar, window clear picture. You may guess that I haven't been running out to get a new TV. The only true quality HD at this point is BluRay, hence the case for a dedicated HD theater that is not used to watch TV.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have my RC-64 on a shelf above my TV, about 5 feet off the floor. The RC-64 tweeter is only about 10 inches higher than the tweeters of the RF-83, which flank the TV. This setup should create a seamless front stage. All the issues I have posted about I have heard with the tweeters in this position.

Hmmmm. 10 inches isn't much, this probably isn't it, but try pointing the RC-64 tweeter sightly down -- right at your ears in the listening position, i.e. the lines from all speakers' tweeters should intersect right at your ears. Some people think you should be able to look down the throat of every tweeter from listening position. If you have to tip cabinets, make sure they are attached to something (e.g., the wall).

If you have EQ (even just tone controls) put on a test CD (softly, so as to not damage the delicate tweeters, which are used to producing SPL about 20 dB softer than mids and bass, because that's way it is in music), and try to get the high frequencies to read the same from all speakers on a SPL meter. It doesn't matter if the meter is a lower quality one (Radio Shack) as long as the average reading for frequencies above about 4K read about the same from all front speakers. The peaks and dips will be in different places when coming from the RC-64 v.s. the RF-83 -- it's the AVERAGE elevation of the highs that should be about the same.

For what it's worth, I've never heard two speakers of the same model sound exactly the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...