Jump to content

for MWM fanatics


ClaudeJ1

Recommended Posts

Well, after 3 1/2 years of using MWMs bottoms, I went back to Korner horns. They dig deeper and with digital time delay, lining them up with the mid section is a piece of cake. It did push up my stack beyond my 7 foot ceiling to get the super tweets up the middle and mounted. I'm crossing to Midbass horns at 120 Hz. so I'm not using much of the K horn bandwitdh (plus I'm PEQing the bottom most octave). So now I think I will make that tapped horn coffee table for the sub-40 Hz LFE channel of movies and sell off a few pairs of Heresy's to get more LAB woofers and complete my LAB horns (V 3.0 per Brad Litz). It will be time to push the envelope down further with the 11-foot LAB horns ("G" style rather than folded K-8-footers. Laying them on their side in corners will load them up better and lower my stack by 15", which should put me back somewhere between the photo below and what I had in my Avatar.

Meanwhile, I just got an empty Cornwall cab to make a CornScala center/voice channel for movies. The imaging is so good when I put Audyssey Multi EQ (freq/ AND time domain room compensation for dummies) that all people that hear my setup SWEAR the vocals on 2 ch. come from the center channel Khorn clone I have (does 60 Hz. with no corners) until they walk up to it and hear it's not even on.

post-22904-13819656803826_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 250
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

I still feel that straight axis horns sound better (and measure smoother) than folded horns. JW Cullison has all straight axis horn down to 70 Hz. and without a listen, I'm sure it ouperfoms my setup based on what I have learned in my quest for "bigger is better."

So evn though the "K" is folded 3 times and may not be as "fast" sounding in certain ranges as the MWMs 2-fold was, it packs more "woomph" and is clearer overall in the lower bass regions, where I'm using it (below 120 Hz.).

Having been taught many audible lessons by having 2-4 MWMs cabs in my stacks over the last several years, I'm going the next step with the LAB horns, which are not a simple build. However, they will go flat to 30 hz. and down to 20 Hz. with a bit of EQ. They can handle a few Kilo Watts with their twin 12" LAB drivers, but my room gain situation and the fact that I listen between 75 and 85 db at my sweet spot all the time (want to hear for another 40 years, if I can).

As soon as I'm done building my new studio, I will start the new big horns. Can't wait.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd put an MWM vs. a K-horn in a "clarity" contest any day. The MWM will be clearer. Claude, I agree the K digs lower. Yup.........but I'll bet all day long on the clarity of the MWM over a K.

I heard the Jub vs. K in a room and that was NOT a close comparison. Then we did Jub vs. MWM..........and I bought MWMs. The Jub dug lower as does the K.........but I have a pair of Titan 48 subs to fix that.

I would NEVER trade my MWMs for Ks. Heck I got rid of some very nice Ks long ago, and would never do them again as long as I can have MWMs and subs. I'd go for Jubs long before Ks.

I can understand your excitement as you are building a home theater, and so a Khorn is more valuable than an MWM for its low end.

I'm working with a music only system and so I vlaue the tightness and clarity of the MWM over low end extension, which I achieve with horn subs to maintain tightness and clarity, and to avoid a tubby or boomy sound.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd put an MWM vs. a K-horn in a "clarity" contest any day. The MWM will be clearer. Claude, I agree the K digs lower. Yup.........but I'll bet all day long on the clarity of the MWM over a K.

I heard the Jub vs. K in a room and that was NOT a close comparison. Then we did Jub vs. MWM..........and I bought MWMs. The Jub dug lower as does the K.........but I have a pair of Titan 48 subs to fix that.

I would NEVER trade my MWMs for Ks. Heck I got rid of some very nice Ks long ago, and would never do them again as long as I can have MWMs and subs. I'd go for Jubs long before Ks.

I can understand your excitement as you are building a home theater, and so a Khorn is more valuable than an MWM for its low end.

I'm working with a music only system and so I vlaue the tightness and clarity of the MWM over low end extension, which I achieve with horn subs to maintain tightness and clarity, and to avoid a tubby or boomy sound.

I was hoping you would respond to this.

I totally agree with you Mark. The MWMs are tighter for sure, hence my preference for straight axis horns and horns with as few folds as possible. I'm not saying the K's are better, just different. My MWMs experience makes me want to build LAB horns, so I can have tight AND low. If not, I can always come back to MWMs........I'm not a traitor, just in transition. LOL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, I think the main issue is that you are into a HT. The MWM, although now a cinema speaker, definitely needs good subs to make the bottom end work right. A Khorn is more capable down low and depending on how well they are set up and driven may or may not need much sub addition at all.

You also use the Audyssey feature which is DSP. I use DSP in my HT upstairs in my house for my 5.1 TV and movie setup and it works fairly well. But I wouldn't use it in my music system.............and I've backed down to as little EQ as I can possibly use as well.

I'm looking for sound that you get from a giant sound reinforcement system at a live outdoor concert with a lot of separation between instruments. There is nothing more pleasing to me than to stream Mountain Jam (this weekend) and Bonnaroo (next week) over the internet and have it sound just like I'm there.........and it does with the MCM-3 setup.

Different goals and different tools. It's all good..........I'm sure your setup sounds awesome. I agree, properly done tractrix straights will be better than folded. JC's setup just blows me away. A pair of Klipsch 684 subs, 2 Straight bass horns, and MCM-4 Grand HF horns (402 & 510). That'll do ya just fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That was when I ran it 3 way. It's 4-way now. Now I have Titan 48 horn subs coming in at 50hz and the bottom is covered much better. I've also tweaked the other horn levels and minimized the EQ used. I need to repost the current response, but not really too much different.

Headed home to stream Mountain Jam live. Electric Hot Tuna coming on at 4:30PM. EST

Check out mountainjam.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry...........to answer the question, they can be crossed as high as 500hz per Roy Delgado..............and I actually ran them in 2-way like that for a long time. Did it with passives and also active systems. Still very good. But better in 4-way though.

The response curve you see here looks as it does because I have a 300hz LR 24db/octave crossover setting. The MWM has a suckout at 300hz and so that is a good place to cross it. If you look at the specs on the MCM-3 and MCM-4 Grand cinema products Klispch currently sells, you will see 300 is what they use.

In fact I am using 300 and 800 in the picture above as the specs for the MCM-3 state. The RTA system is a good way to view what you actually get though. As you can see the actual acoustic crossover is not exactly where you think it would be with those settings. I just follow Klipsch specs and not worry about it. It would be easy to make it fall directly on 300 and 800 if I wanted that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I heard the Jub vs. K in a room and that was NOT a close comparison. Then we did Jub vs. MWM..........and I bought MWMs. The Jub dug lower as does the K.........but I have a pair of Titan 48 subs to fix that.

I'm not a fan of the specs on a Titan sub.......LAB horns or Tapped Horns for me below K, M, or J horns, but to each his own.

As to the comparison of the Khorn vs.Jubilee, the only way to make it fair is to use ACTIVE xovers with time delays on both, with Linkwitz-Riley 4th or 8th order slopes. Tweaked, active 2-way with time delays vs. normal production passives.......not fair at all. I think if the Khorn had been done with a 3-way active with EQ, time Delays, etc. the differences would have been minimized, but we will never know for sure, now will we.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I found an old pic of an RTA of the 4-way version. This is with the Titan 48 subs.............

Mark how does the sound of these bins compare to the La scala,s slam ?

It's basically a BIG LaScala what goes about 2.5 times LOWER in frequency. It "slams" you at 55 Hz instead of 150 Hz. IOW, it's a 6-foot horn instead of a 2 1/2 foot horn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am using an Ashly Protea 4.8Sp active crossover. Love it to death.

As far as the sub and a DTS-10..........yes it would go lower for sure, but even Danley recommends against that sub for music. That is a HT sub and I don't need the bloating and more filtering to make it perform right. The Titans are excellent and have matching timber to the MWMs. No EQ required. In fact I can shut off the MWMs and use only the Titans to 300Hz if I want. I've tried that. However, the MWMs have a slightly sweeter sound than the Titans. I am using the Titans in the weakest part of their envelope but they are still effective in my system and room. Good clean punch, and so it's a 100% horn loaded MCM-3.

The MWM sounds nothing like a lascala in my opinion. I have a pair on the opposite wall and I play them regularly. The Lascala always sounded good to me but when you listen A/B with the MWM you here the big spike at around 150hz on the Lascala that becomes noticable. The MWMs are smoooooooth. Very smooth. I am using K33 woofers. Per Roy D. they give more energy down around 40Hz where the MWM horn needs it, as opposed to the K43 being strong around 140hz and handling high power better. The K33s have worked out very well for me, and although I'm using over 500 watts on the bass cabinets, I never worry about breaking anything and haven't yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...